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When did the Fighter become "defender"?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5908145" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>In B/X or AD&D you can't do anything useful with a bow as a cleric, druid, magic-user, illusionist or monk.</p><p></p><p>Thieves have the DEX for it, but their damage will be ordinary - they don't get backstab. A fighter may have the DEX for it, but their damage will be ordinary too - they don't get STR. In AD&D, though, a bow has a broken rate of fire (double attacks) which can certainly compensate for what might otherwise be a lack of damage.</p><p></p><p>In 3E, what does a cleric do with a bow? Not much that's impressive, I would have thought. Likewise a wizard or sorcerer (shouldn't the sorcerer be using blasting spells?). I would have thought the viable bow classes are rogues (good DEX), fighters (feats to enhance it, possibility of good DEX, good STR for a mighty bow) and rangers (free feats, likely to have good STR or good DEX).</p><p></p><p>If a player had an AD&D archer-cleric-thief, and wanted to translate that PC into 4e, I would go hybrid ranger-cleric as the first choice (I have one in the group I GM, and it plays like an AD&D archer-cleric-thief with Stealth and Acrobatics). If confined to the PHB 1, I might build a ranger with cleric multi-class: at very low levels, 1x/day healing will emulate a low-level AD&D cleric, and by mid-heroic a power-swap feat for an encounter healing power will give you a bit of a cleric vibe. Or I might build a WIS cleric with good DEX, wearing leather or hide armour, and taking ranger multi-class (to get Stealth and Hunter's Quarry as a backstab emulator) and bow proficiency. The bow will give a range advantage, and at short range the PC can switch to cleric powers instead. (Much as an AD&D cleric-thief would, especially at mid-to-high levels, might tend towards spellcasting over backstabbing in combat.)</p><p></p><p>I don't think the system is as limited as is sometimes suggested. (It's not as if a cleric-thief is an especially poweful choice in AD&D, after all!)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5908145, member: 42582"] In B/X or AD&D you can't do anything useful with a bow as a cleric, druid, magic-user, illusionist or monk. Thieves have the DEX for it, but their damage will be ordinary - they don't get backstab. A fighter may have the DEX for it, but their damage will be ordinary too - they don't get STR. In AD&D, though, a bow has a broken rate of fire (double attacks) which can certainly compensate for what might otherwise be a lack of damage. In 3E, what does a cleric do with a bow? Not much that's impressive, I would have thought. Likewise a wizard or sorcerer (shouldn't the sorcerer be using blasting spells?). I would have thought the viable bow classes are rogues (good DEX), fighters (feats to enhance it, possibility of good DEX, good STR for a mighty bow) and rangers (free feats, likely to have good STR or good DEX). If a player had an AD&D archer-cleric-thief, and wanted to translate that PC into 4e, I would go hybrid ranger-cleric as the first choice (I have one in the group I GM, and it plays like an AD&D archer-cleric-thief with Stealth and Acrobatics). If confined to the PHB 1, I might build a ranger with cleric multi-class: at very low levels, 1x/day healing will emulate a low-level AD&D cleric, and by mid-heroic a power-swap feat for an encounter healing power will give you a bit of a cleric vibe. Or I might build a WIS cleric with good DEX, wearing leather or hide armour, and taking ranger multi-class (to get Stealth and Hunter's Quarry as a backstab emulator) and bow proficiency. The bow will give a range advantage, and at short range the PC can switch to cleric powers instead. (Much as an AD&D cleric-thief would, especially at mid-to-high levels, might tend towards spellcasting over backstabbing in combat.) I don't think the system is as limited as is sometimes suggested. (It's not as if a cleric-thief is an especially poweful choice in AD&D, after all!) [/QUOTE]
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When did the Fighter become "defender"?
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