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When did the Fighter become "defender"?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5908343" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>1: Says you. Backstab has always done more damage than a fighter. Rogues in 3.X with sneak attack do more damage than fighters. It is a blatant retcon, ignoring many prior editions, to say that fighters have always outdamaged rogues.</p><p></p><p>2: Says you. A rogue's best weapon is effectively a +4/1d4 weapon. A fighter's most damaging weapon is effectively a +4/1d12 weapon. If the rogue doesn't get sneak attack, the fighter wins comfortably. The rogue is a decent striker if and only if the rogue is sneak attacking - with Sneak Attack the rogue does d6 (normally d8) damage more than a two handed fighter and without the rogue does d6 (d8 allowing for backstabber and exotic weapons) <em>less</em> as a baseline.</p><p></p><p>3: Says you. The rogue's damage isn't affected much by powers. If the rogue is using a dagger a [3W] power will do a total of 2d4 damage more than a [1W] power - for a fighter this number is somewhere between 2d8 and 2d12 - which means that the fighter catches up on damage if the equivalent powers does [2W] as a lot of encounter powers do. And a multi-target or multiple attacks per round power won't be scaled well for the rogue because they don't get sneak attack. So the rogue gains much less in effectiveness from the high damage powers.</p><p></p><p>4: Says you. </p><p></p><p>When we look at the powers and power combos, the combination of Come And Get It followed by Sweeping Blow with a fullblade does a level of carnage the rogue could only dream of - draws in most enemies in a Close Burst 3 with a highly accurate [1W] attack and follows it up by a [1W] + Str attack with a bonus to hit. Which doubles all static sources of damage. Or we look at Rain of Blows - three separate attacks from an encounter power - which triples static damage bonusses and pushes things way out of the league of any rogue. Or we look at dailies. A fighter built for damage can take 3W dailies quite happily - rogues can't touch that and couldn't with a [3W] daily of their own. </p><p></p><p>On the other hand rogue powers are normally geared towards control. Rogues get an encounter [1w] daze at level 1. They get an encounter blind at level 7. </p><p></p><p>Although the rogue has the striker damage mechanic, fighter powers are actually more strikery than rogue ones.</p><p></p><p>So a fighter that goes in for two handed fighting will actually do more damage than a rogue whatever the class roles say.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>No. Your lack of understanding of 4e means that you think 4e pigeon holed fighters when a fighter built for damage using only PHB options can outdamage a rogue.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: red">Admin here. Folks, this last line is a good example of how not to post. Please don't tell other people what they supposedly think. Concentrate on being polite and supporting your own points. -- Piratecat</span></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5908343, member: 87792"] 1: Says you. Backstab has always done more damage than a fighter. Rogues in 3.X with sneak attack do more damage than fighters. It is a blatant retcon, ignoring many prior editions, to say that fighters have always outdamaged rogues. 2: Says you. A rogue's best weapon is effectively a +4/1d4 weapon. A fighter's most damaging weapon is effectively a +4/1d12 weapon. If the rogue doesn't get sneak attack, the fighter wins comfortably. The rogue is a decent striker if and only if the rogue is sneak attacking - with Sneak Attack the rogue does d6 (normally d8) damage more than a two handed fighter and without the rogue does d6 (d8 allowing for backstabber and exotic weapons) [I]less[/I] as a baseline. 3: Says you. The rogue's damage isn't affected much by powers. If the rogue is using a dagger a [3W] power will do a total of 2d4 damage more than a [1W] power - for a fighter this number is somewhere between 2d8 and 2d12 - which means that the fighter catches up on damage if the equivalent powers does [2W] as a lot of encounter powers do. And a multi-target or multiple attacks per round power won't be scaled well for the rogue because they don't get sneak attack. So the rogue gains much less in effectiveness from the high damage powers. 4: Says you. When we look at the powers and power combos, the combination of Come And Get It followed by Sweeping Blow with a fullblade does a level of carnage the rogue could only dream of - draws in most enemies in a Close Burst 3 with a highly accurate [1W] attack and follows it up by a [1W] + Str attack with a bonus to hit. Which doubles all static sources of damage. Or we look at Rain of Blows - three separate attacks from an encounter power - which triples static damage bonusses and pushes things way out of the league of any rogue. Or we look at dailies. A fighter built for damage can take 3W dailies quite happily - rogues can't touch that and couldn't with a [3W] daily of their own. On the other hand rogue powers are normally geared towards control. Rogues get an encounter [1w] daze at level 1. They get an encounter blind at level 7. Although the rogue has the striker damage mechanic, fighter powers are actually more strikery than rogue ones. So a fighter that goes in for two handed fighting will actually do more damage than a rogue whatever the class roles say. No. Your lack of understanding of 4e means that you think 4e pigeon holed fighters when a fighter built for damage using only PHB options can outdamage a rogue. [b][color=red]Admin here. Folks, this last line is a good example of how not to post. Please don't tell other people what they supposedly think. Concentrate on being polite and supporting your own points. -- Piratecat[/color][/b][color=red][/color] [/QUOTE]
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