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General Tabletop Discussion
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When did the Fighter become "defender"?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5908406" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Strongest only means a thing to fighters of strength 18 or more. As for best in hand to hand combat, unless a fighter has a strength of 18, they don't actually hit any harder than anyone else.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>You're extrapolating. Defence and toughness is mentioned first. And mentioned first for a very good reason.</p><p></p><p>Mechanics matter more than fluff.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>No he isn't. Wardens are tougher. So, I think, are paladins. He's primarily tough and secondarily hits like a truck. Like the 1e fighter. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A return to prior editions. Where the job of the fighter included keeping the bad guys off the wizard and what made him really stand out was toughness. It was only when we reached Unearthed Arcana and Gygax realised that the fighter needed a boost that the fighter significantly stood out at dealing damage.</p><p> </p><p>[quote[Therefore, as per the OP (in which he states [paraphrased] that "defending" was only a result of beating up all the bad guys), the concept of a Fighter as predominantly a Defender started with 4E.</p></blockquote><p></p><p>The OP was wrong. Defending dropped off when the game left the dungeon, and the lack of ready made choke points made defending a much harder job. It stayed down in 3e. And the 4e fighter is a return to form.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>That says bad things about ENWorld.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>You, on the other hand have offered precisely nothing save hearsay.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>... seriously? You want <em>equally armed</em> rogues and fighters? Once again you demonstrate why you come up with misapprehensions. The rogue in 3.X gains a vast static bonus to attacks by means of Sneak Attack. Which means lots of attacks and the two weapon fighting tree work much better for the rogue than other classes. On the other hand two weapon fighting eliminates Power Attack as a viable option. And a lot of other good fighter plays.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Given the conditions you just suggested, I can't see matters getting anywhere.</p><p></p><p>And you'd do better about the fighter if you were to complain about the ranger instead. No one beats a well built ranger at damage output.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5908406, member: 87792"] Strongest only means a thing to fighters of strength 18 or more. As for best in hand to hand combat, unless a fighter has a strength of 18, they don't actually hit any harder than anyone else. You're extrapolating. Defence and toughness is mentioned first. And mentioned first for a very good reason. Mechanics matter more than fluff. No he isn't. Wardens are tougher. So, I think, are paladins. He's primarily tough and secondarily hits like a truck. Like the 1e fighter. A return to prior editions. Where the job of the fighter included keeping the bad guys off the wizard and what made him really stand out was toughness. It was only when we reached Unearthed Arcana and Gygax realised that the fighter needed a boost that the fighter significantly stood out at dealing damage. [quote[Therefore, as per the OP (in which he states [paraphrased] that "defending" was only a result of beating up all the bad guys), the concept of a Fighter as predominantly a Defender started with 4E.[/quote] The OP was wrong. Defending dropped off when the game left the dungeon, and the lack of ready made choke points made defending a much harder job. It stayed down in 3e. And the 4e fighter is a return to form. That says bad things about ENWorld. You, on the other hand have offered precisely nothing save hearsay. ... seriously? You want [I]equally armed[/I] rogues and fighters? Once again you demonstrate why you come up with misapprehensions. The rogue in 3.X gains a vast static bonus to attacks by means of Sneak Attack. Which means lots of attacks and the two weapon fighting tree work much better for the rogue than other classes. On the other hand two weapon fighting eliminates Power Attack as a viable option. And a lot of other good fighter plays. Given the conditions you just suggested, I can't see matters getting anywhere. And you'd do better about the fighter if you were to complain about the ranger instead. No one beats a well built ranger at damage output. [/QUOTE]
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When did the Fighter become "defender"?
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