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When did the Monster Manual 2 become a core book?
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<blockquote data-quote="BigFreekinGoblinoid" data-source="post: 1206755" data-attributes="member: 5988"><p>If you ARE going to stat out the gods, GIVE THEM EPIC LEVELS in their specialty areas for goodness sake! </p><p></p><p>That said, deities with stats are rediculous. Unless they are strictly sample avatar stats, but even so, I would never use them. </p><p></p><p>The ELH/God book catch 22 is not an easy one to solve, but if WotC had it to do all over again, and I was the project manager ( and told that I must include stats for deities ), I would require that the ELH be necessary to fully utilize any deity books. Salient Divine abilites would be included in the ELH, along with suggestions for PC ascension. All munchkins would be happy, as EVERYONE who would actually like to use stats for gods ( and therefore COMBAT) would also be interested in epic levels for PC's. </p><p></p><p>But back to the larger issue at hand: </p><p></p><p>I like books that build on ideas in other books. If a book wants to use a monster/spell/ability etc.. from another book, it should damn well give all the MINIMUM necessary information required. </p><p></p><p>Am I alone in not understanding all the references in this thread to "2e product creep"? In all the Planescape books I recall, the statblocks and spell descriptions etc... were included for monsters that did not originate in that book. If a reference was made that was not integral to the action, a detailed description was not necessary. </p><p></p><p>So -</p><p></p><p>I do not have an issue with a book that only makes reference to a monster or PC race in another book. That is unavoidable, especially in deeper settings like FR. </p><p></p><p>BUT:</p><p></p><p>BoED should have included details enough to complete a PrC description. How much extra text would that have required? Stoopid. </p><p></p><p>You can't do everything in one ( or three ) books. But you must be consistant in your approach to handling the issue. Certain things make sense, like requiring an epic ruleset to handle combat with deities. Certain things DON'T make sense, like an incomplete PrC, or multiple versions of Githyanki ( or whatever ) that are fundamentally different from each other.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BigFreekinGoblinoid, post: 1206755, member: 5988"] If you ARE going to stat out the gods, GIVE THEM EPIC LEVELS in their specialty areas for goodness sake! That said, deities with stats are rediculous. Unless they are strictly sample avatar stats, but even so, I would never use them. The ELH/God book catch 22 is not an easy one to solve, but if WotC had it to do all over again, and I was the project manager ( and told that I must include stats for deities ), I would require that the ELH be necessary to fully utilize any deity books. Salient Divine abilites would be included in the ELH, along with suggestions for PC ascension. All munchkins would be happy, as EVERYONE who would actually like to use stats for gods ( and therefore COMBAT) would also be interested in epic levels for PC's. But back to the larger issue at hand: I like books that build on ideas in other books. If a book wants to use a monster/spell/ability etc.. from another book, it should damn well give all the MINIMUM necessary information required. Am I alone in not understanding all the references in this thread to "2e product creep"? In all the Planescape books I recall, the statblocks and spell descriptions etc... were included for monsters that did not originate in that book. If a reference was made that was not integral to the action, a detailed description was not necessary. So - I do not have an issue with a book that only makes reference to a monster or PC race in another book. That is unavoidable, especially in deeper settings like FR. BUT: BoED should have included details enough to complete a PrC description. How much extra text would that have required? Stoopid. You can't do everything in one ( or three ) books. But you must be consistant in your approach to handling the issue. Certain things make sense, like requiring an epic ruleset to handle combat with deities. Certain things DON'T make sense, like an incomplete PrC, or multiple versions of Githyanki ( or whatever ) that are fundamentally different from each other. [/QUOTE]
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