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<blockquote data-quote="RobShanti" data-source="post: 7697909" data-attributes="member: 82745"><p>It's an interesting article.</p><p></p><p>It raises a few questions.</p><p></p><p><strong>Why did the Corrections Departments in Georgia, Washington and Minnesota withhold the <em>Dragons and Dungeons</em> magazines of inmates?</strong> The article doesn't really say, but we are led to believe that they did so for the reasons the Wisconsin prison did, which may not be the case. Since we don't have enough data on the Georgia, Washington and Minnesota bans, we can't really have a meaningful discussion about them.</p><p></p><p><strong>Were the Georgia, Washington and Minnesota withholdings of the magazines "reasonably related to legitimate penological interests [or] institutional security" and therefore permissible under U.S. Supreme Court and 5th Circuit precedent?</strong> Again, without enough data, it's hard to say, but the standard seems very low, so it seems the inmates could be hard pressed to overcome the ban.</p><p></p><p><strong>Was Dragon Magazine Group Publisher Johnny Wilson's argument that RPGs are good for inmates relevant to the legal issue of whether withholding inmates Dragon and Dungeon magazines is "reasonably related to legitimate penological interests [or] institutional security"?</strong></p><p><strong></strong> It doesn't look that way. Yes, RPGs can have great benefits, but do those benefits overcome the undisclosed (by the article) reasons the prisons had for banning the magazines? The court, who had all the legal arguments before it, decided they do not. Without more information, we would be hard pressed to argue error.</p><p></p><p><strong>Is Wilson correct that some prisons have prohibited inmates from even playing the game, or is he assuming too much? If he is correct, is that a dumb policy?</strong> What prisons have prohibited inmates from playing the game and why? Without this information, we can't discuss the legitimacy of the policy. Assuming any prisons banned the game, each may have had its own different reason for doing so, and, thus, each reason would have to be examined separately and independently depending on the differing concerns and issues of that prison.</p><p></p><p><strong>Did the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals err in upholding a Wisconsin prison’s rule forbidding inmates to play Dungeons & Dragons or possess D&D publications and materials based on the rationale that playing D&D might stimulate “gang activity” by inmates where that rationale was supported by multiple cases from other states in which inmates playing the game indulged in “escapism” and became divorced from reality; where two non-inmates committed a crime in which they “acted out” a D&D story-line; and where one longtime D&D player (not an inmate) committed suicide?</strong> Well, it depends on what the evidence that "inmates playing the game indulged in 'escapism' and became divorced from reality" really showed. This sounds like the writer of the article that used this phrase had already decided his opinion, and was framing the issue in a way that supported it. That may not necessarily be an adequate, or even fair, characterization of what the evidence showed. The court, which had the evidence before it first-hand, decided that this evidence was strong enough to support the prison's policy. We can't assume that the court simply fell into the same hysteria of the 80s over D&D. That may have had nothing to do with it, yet the author of the article brings that up as if to offer it as the court's rationale, when, in fact, it may well not have been.</p><p></p><p>One thought that came to mind for me was Robert Nozick's Entitlement theory of "Distributive Justice" -- where do we allocate resources, and do prisoners deserve them over law-abiding citizens. This theory actually seems to advocate <em>in favor</em> of prisoners playing D&D...assuming you buy a core rulebook and a set of dice, and not stock the prison library with every supplement Wizards of the Coast puts out for D&D, or bother updating editions, it's really a virtually zero-cost way of occupying prisoners for a very long period of time. They could game all day and for days on end, rather than filing shivs out of soap or digging tunnels or plotting riots. </p><p></p><p>That said, the article gives several examples of remarkable resourcefulness by prison inmates: fashioning spinners out of cardboard, staples and pencils to replace forbidden dice; fashioning weapons out of the heavy cardboard of game boards; etc. This kind of resourcefulness can be double-edged: it can be used to raise other concerns that aren't readily apparent to us and that pose a risk to prison security. Without hearing from the prison policymakers about the realities and consequences of giving prisoners access to these games, it's kind of hard for me to say that prohibiting them is a bad idea.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RobShanti, post: 7697909, member: 82745"] It's an interesting article. It raises a few questions. [B]Why did the Corrections Departments in Georgia, Washington and Minnesota withhold the [I]Dragons and Dungeons[/I] magazines of inmates?[/B] The article doesn't really say, but we are led to believe that they did so for the reasons the Wisconsin prison did, which may not be the case. Since we don't have enough data on the Georgia, Washington and Minnesota bans, we can't really have a meaningful discussion about them. [B]Were the Georgia, Washington and Minnesota withholdings of the magazines "reasonably related to legitimate penological interests [or] institutional security" and therefore permissible under U.S. Supreme Court and 5th Circuit precedent?[/B] Again, without enough data, it's hard to say, but the standard seems very low, so it seems the inmates could be hard pressed to overcome the ban. [B]Was Dragon Magazine Group Publisher Johnny Wilson's argument that RPGs are good for inmates relevant to the legal issue of whether withholding inmates Dragon and Dungeon magazines is "reasonably related to legitimate penological interests [or] institutional security"? [/B] It doesn't look that way. Yes, RPGs can have great benefits, but do those benefits overcome the undisclosed (by the article) reasons the prisons had for banning the magazines? The court, who had all the legal arguments before it, decided they do not. Without more information, we would be hard pressed to argue error. [B]Is Wilson correct that some prisons have prohibited inmates from even playing the game, or is he assuming too much? If he is correct, is that a dumb policy?[/B] What prisons have prohibited inmates from playing the game and why? Without this information, we can't discuss the legitimacy of the policy. Assuming any prisons banned the game, each may have had its own different reason for doing so, and, thus, each reason would have to be examined separately and independently depending on the differing concerns and issues of that prison. [B]Did the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals err in upholding a Wisconsin prison’s rule forbidding inmates to play Dungeons & Dragons or possess D&D publications and materials based on the rationale that playing D&D might stimulate “gang activity” by inmates where that rationale was supported by multiple cases from other states in which inmates playing the game indulged in “escapism” and became divorced from reality; where two non-inmates committed a crime in which they “acted out” a D&D story-line; and where one longtime D&D player (not an inmate) committed suicide?[/B] Well, it depends on what the evidence that "inmates playing the game indulged in 'escapism' and became divorced from reality" really showed. This sounds like the writer of the article that used this phrase had already decided his opinion, and was framing the issue in a way that supported it. That may not necessarily be an adequate, or even fair, characterization of what the evidence showed. The court, which had the evidence before it first-hand, decided that this evidence was strong enough to support the prison's policy. We can't assume that the court simply fell into the same hysteria of the 80s over D&D. That may have had nothing to do with it, yet the author of the article brings that up as if to offer it as the court's rationale, when, in fact, it may well not have been. One thought that came to mind for me was Robert Nozick's Entitlement theory of "Distributive Justice" -- where do we allocate resources, and do prisoners deserve them over law-abiding citizens. This theory actually seems to advocate [I]in favor[/I] of prisoners playing D&D...assuming you buy a core rulebook and a set of dice, and not stock the prison library with every supplement Wizards of the Coast puts out for D&D, or bother updating editions, it's really a virtually zero-cost way of occupying prisoners for a very long period of time. They could game all day and for days on end, rather than filing shivs out of soap or digging tunnels or plotting riots. That said, the article gives several examples of remarkable resourcefulness by prison inmates: fashioning spinners out of cardboard, staples and pencils to replace forbidden dice; fashioning weapons out of the heavy cardboard of game boards; etc. This kind of resourcefulness can be double-edged: it can be used to raise other concerns that aren't readily apparent to us and that pose a risk to prison security. Without hearing from the prison policymakers about the realities and consequences of giving prisoners access to these games, it's kind of hard for me to say that prohibiting them is a bad idea. [/QUOTE]
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