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General Tabletop Discussion
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When Fiends Attack: Are Balors, Pit Fiends and Ultraloths too weak?
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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 7031764" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>The latter scenario is theoretically possible, but the former is more common.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then (at least by RAW) you lose legendary actions and Extra Attacks and the potential for movement and any other reaction potential (like Marilith Parrying), and the Rogue gets to choose the terms of every engagement. At least one monster will still get an attack via its readied action, which is why they lose 80% of their damage potential and not 100%, but it is still a very strong ability if you have strong Stealth.</p><p></p><p>Finding somewhere to hide every round isn't a huge issue BTW. Any cover will suffice. If the Rogue (or Shadow Monk) has planned ahead and taken the Skulker feat, any old darkness will suffice against Darkvision-reliant creatures. In any case, DMG math assumes that hiding places will be readily-available.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ah. Well, for that matter, it doesn't even really factor in to-hit at all, nor many sources of advantage. It's a formula for "computing CR," for whatever that's worth, but CR is an extremely crude metric. I have mentioned before that PCs are even more dangerous than their computed CR makes them worth, because they tend to have abilities like Expertise, Mobile, Lucky, Bardic Inspiration, and spells that aren't properly accounted for in CR. (Just look at the DMG table and see how few abilities even affect CR at all.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except that attacking and then hiding is like +Enormous to AC, which is indisputably a valuable thing to have. The extra +weapon to damage really does not make up for the increased vulnerability. "Maximizing damage output" is a poor thing to optimize.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 7031764, member: 6787650"] The latter scenario is theoretically possible, but the former is more common. Then (at least by RAW) you lose legendary actions and Extra Attacks and the potential for movement and any other reaction potential (like Marilith Parrying), and the Rogue gets to choose the terms of every engagement. At least one monster will still get an attack via its readied action, which is why they lose 80% of their damage potential and not 100%, but it is still a very strong ability if you have strong Stealth. Finding somewhere to hide every round isn't a huge issue BTW. Any cover will suffice. If the Rogue (or Shadow Monk) has planned ahead and taken the Skulker feat, any old darkness will suffice against Darkvision-reliant creatures. In any case, DMG math assumes that hiding places will be readily-available. Ah. Well, for that matter, it doesn't even really factor in to-hit at all, nor many sources of advantage. It's a formula for "computing CR," for whatever that's worth, but CR is an extremely crude metric. I have mentioned before that PCs are even more dangerous than their computed CR makes them worth, because they tend to have abilities like Expertise, Mobile, Lucky, Bardic Inspiration, and spells that aren't properly accounted for in CR. (Just look at the DMG table and see how few abilities even affect CR at all.) Except that attacking and then hiding is like +Enormous to AC, which is indisputably a valuable thing to have. The extra +weapon to damage really does not make up for the increased vulnerability. "Maximizing damage output" is a poor thing to optimize. [/QUOTE]
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When Fiends Attack: Are Balors, Pit Fiends and Ultraloths too weak?
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