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When the New Edition Doesn't Cut It
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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 9026119" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>I've had it happen many times...</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>Twilight 2000</u> 2.2</em> the change from 2E's 1d10 vs Skill × DiffMult to 1d20 vs (Stat+Skill) × DiffMult, while not fixing the ability to punch a tank into submission if Str >10 and Unarmed Combat over 6, one can actually hurt APCs</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>Traveller: The New Era</u></em> (that's a thread length rant trigger - I'll spare most of it) - It was convertible to/from CT/MT, but not actually compatible, but was instead a port of MT to the TNE rules.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>L5R</u> 4th</em> ed ... the things I liked best about 3rd got pruned.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>Car Wars</u></em> <em>5th</em> - completely abandoned any semblance of RPG-ness</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>The One Ring</u> 2E</em>: strongly dislike the increased randomness, the removal of cultural rewards, and the nerfing of Songs.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lots of <em><u>D&D</u></em>...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">AD&D 2e. Kept the wrong elements, IMO, esp. Descending AC, percentile thief skills.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D&D 3.0 Fixed a few key things, but introduced a bunch more.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D&D 3.5 Didn't fix anything I wanted to see fixed</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D&D 4 - fixed a few things I disliked about 3.x, but had the extra-length special Abilities</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D&D 5 - Doesn't feel like any other edition at all for me. Not even partially. It's a good game, probably the best game with a D&D trademark, but it feels too different for me. ¹</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><u><em>Ars Magica</em></u><em> 4th</em> - removal of the Rational Aura. Minor disappointment.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>WFRP</u> 2E</em> and <em>4E</em>; IMO, the only things 1E needed fixing were more levels of skills and Divorced from the WFB 5-8 settings. 4E took all the 2E items I disliked (Esp Colors of Magic, smaller attribute gain increments) and doubled down on them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>EABA</u></em> <em>2E</em> - The combat changes and wierdnesses of the playtest moved it away from feeling like a more mathematically validated WEG d6 system...</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>WEG Star Wars</u></em> <em>3rd</em> edition... by not being released as such (It's released as <em><u>D6 Space</u></em> - which is still available, hastily stripped of Star Wars IP.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>Arrowflight</u> 2E</em> - went from the dice pool mechanic to 2d6 mechanic, without changing character gen, and thus making starting characters go from 1E's relatively capable to almost incompetent.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>Albedo: Platinum Catalyst</u> (Albedo 3e)</em>. Focused upon elements of the setting not addressed in the source comics... notably, the Independent Lapine Republic War. It's extremely tactically focused. Complete with rules for squads attached to the PCs. That its an entirely different engine isn't that big a deal.... but the wrong focus is.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>CORPS</u> 3E</em>, is a setting supplement for EABA 2e, and based upon CORPS 1E, not a revision of CORPS 2E, which is a generic using the 1E mechanics.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>The Fantasy Trip</u></em> - Original was metric. Legacy is US/English Traditional Measures. Some jiggering about with experience & advancement.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><u><em>Cyberpunk</em></u> after 2020. I didn't care for Cybergen thematically, V3 was a disastrous layout and writing mess, and 2077 came out too long after I quit giving a damn about CP.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><u>Prime Directive</u></em> - I love 1st ed's dice pool mechanics. PD20, DP20M and GPD both left me going "WTF is the point?" - neither of those two are set up to do Starfleet campaigns. 1E was, and is wonderfully contrived to make PCs big-damned heroes, not because they're special ops troops, but because in PD 1E, it's not simulating the special ops team, but the Tri-Vids <em>about</em> the special ops team. And while I could run that with either of the later ones, but they'd do nothing to help me do that. </li> </ul><p>Not all the games I've run two editions of were disappointments...</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I prefer MegaTraveller to Classic, but it's by a thin margin.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I prefer the D&D Cyclopedia/Wrath to Mentzer BECMI, and BECMI to Moldvay-Cook BX, and both of those over AD&D 1E and OE (but admitting that I didn't get OE until the 90's)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">T&T - I like 7th and deluxe as well as I like 5th and 5.5. Which I use depends on the players I intend to run for</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I like LUG Trek better than FASA Trek, but I still like FASA Trek enough that I might run it if players want the old-school experience. And FASA-Trek 2E was a minor improvement in almost all areas, but yet fully backwards compatible.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I like Burning Wheel Gold better than Burning Wheel Revised. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I like most of the changes to Mouse Guard 2E; it's not a disappointment, but it does make wises unrollable, so it's a mixed bag. If one's not seriously into the mechanics, you'd miss the changes.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mekton Zeta is better than Mekton II. At least, it is if one can wrap their brain around the Mekton Technical System (Which was a supplement in 1E, essentially a concealed half-edition; a portion of it is in MZ core, the full version in MZ+)</li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 9026119, member: 6779310"] I've had it happen many times... [LIST] [*][I][U]Twilight 2000[/U] 2.2[/I] the change from 2E's 1d10 vs Skill × DiffMult to 1d20 vs (Stat+Skill) × DiffMult, while not fixing the ability to punch a tank into submission if Str >10 and Unarmed Combat over 6, one can actually hurt APCs [*][I][U]Traveller: The New Era[/U][/I] (that's a thread length rant trigger - I'll spare most of it) - It was convertible to/from CT/MT, but not actually compatible, but was instead a port of MT to the TNE rules. [*][I][U]L5R[/U] 4th[/I] ed ... the things I liked best about 3rd got pruned. [*][I][U]Car Wars[/U][/I] [I]5th[/I] - completely abandoned any semblance of RPG-ness [*][I][U]The One Ring[/U] 2E[/I]: strongly dislike the increased randomness, the removal of cultural rewards, and the nerfing of Songs. [*]Lots of [I][U]D&D[/U][/I]... [LIST] [*]AD&D 2e. Kept the wrong elements, IMO, esp. Descending AC, percentile thief skills. [*]D&D 3.0 Fixed a few key things, but introduced a bunch more. [*]D&D 3.5 Didn't fix anything I wanted to see fixed [*]D&D 4 - fixed a few things I disliked about 3.x, but had the extra-length special Abilities [*]D&D 5 - Doesn't feel like any other edition at all for me. Not even partially. It's a good game, probably the best game with a D&D trademark, but it feels too different for me. ¹ [/LIST] [*][U][I]Ars Magica[/I][/U][I] 4th[/I] - removal of the Rational Aura. Minor disappointment. [*][I][U]WFRP[/U] 2E[/I] and [I]4E[/I]; IMO, the only things 1E needed fixing were more levels of skills and Divorced from the WFB 5-8 settings. 4E took all the 2E items I disliked (Esp Colors of Magic, smaller attribute gain increments) and doubled down on them. [*][I][U]EABA[/U][/I] [I]2E[/I] - The combat changes and wierdnesses of the playtest moved it away from feeling like a more mathematically validated WEG d6 system... [*][I][U]WEG Star Wars[/U][/I] [I]3rd[/I] edition... by not being released as such (It's released as [I][U]D6 Space[/U][/I] - which is still available, hastily stripped of Star Wars IP.) [*][I][U]Arrowflight[/U] 2E[/I] - went from the dice pool mechanic to 2d6 mechanic, without changing character gen, and thus making starting characters go from 1E's relatively capable to almost incompetent. [*][I][U]Albedo: Platinum Catalyst[/U] (Albedo 3e)[/I]. Focused upon elements of the setting not addressed in the source comics... notably, the Independent Lapine Republic War. It's extremely tactically focused. Complete with rules for squads attached to the PCs. That its an entirely different engine isn't that big a deal.... but the wrong focus is. [*][I][U]CORPS[/U] 3E[/I], is a setting supplement for EABA 2e, and based upon CORPS 1E, not a revision of CORPS 2E, which is a generic using the 1E mechanics. [*][I][U]The Fantasy Trip[/U][/I] - Original was metric. Legacy is US/English Traditional Measures. Some jiggering about with experience & advancement. [*][U][I]Cyberpunk[/I][/U] after 2020. I didn't care for Cybergen thematically, V3 was a disastrous layout and writing mess, and 2077 came out too long after I quit giving a damn about CP. [*][I][U]Prime Directive[/U][/I] - I love 1st ed's dice pool mechanics. PD20, DP20M and GPD both left me going "WTF is the point?" - neither of those two are set up to do Starfleet campaigns. 1E was, and is wonderfully contrived to make PCs big-damned heroes, not because they're special ops troops, but because in PD 1E, it's not simulating the special ops team, but the Tri-Vids [I]about[/I] the special ops team. And while I could run that with either of the later ones, but they'd do nothing to help me do that. [/LIST] Not all the games I've run two editions of were disappointments... [LIST] [*]I prefer MegaTraveller to Classic, but it's by a thin margin. [*]I prefer the D&D Cyclopedia/Wrath to Mentzer BECMI, and BECMI to Moldvay-Cook BX, and both of those over AD&D 1E and OE (but admitting that I didn't get OE until the 90's) [*]T&T - I like 7th and deluxe as well as I like 5th and 5.5. Which I use depends on the players I intend to run for [*]I like LUG Trek better than FASA Trek, but I still like FASA Trek enough that I might run it if players want the old-school experience. And FASA-Trek 2E was a minor improvement in almost all areas, but yet fully backwards compatible. [*]I like Burning Wheel Gold better than Burning Wheel Revised. [*]I like most of the changes to Mouse Guard 2E; it's not a disappointment, but it does make wises unrollable, so it's a mixed bag. If one's not seriously into the mechanics, you'd miss the changes. [*]Mekton Zeta is better than Mekton II. At least, it is if one can wrap their brain around the Mekton Technical System (Which was a supplement in 1E, essentially a concealed half-edition; a portion of it is in MZ core, the full version in MZ+) [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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