Where do fiends come from? (Cosmology)

[rbingham2000]

I posted something similar to this kind of thing on the D&D boards, because I always found it odd that you had angels and demons from Judeo-Christian mythology coexisting side-by-side with a polytheistic pantheon without a solid explanation as to where the angels and demons came from in the cosmology.

My basic idea was to have the different celestials and fiends be servants of the good and evil gods themselves. So Heironeous would have solars and other angels as his servants (and they'd be badassed angel warriors), Corellon would have the Eladrins as his servants, Hextor would rule the more warlike devils, and the like. Didn't get much of a response from the D&D boards outside of The Official Explanation from 2nd Edition.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I don't quite see how that fits into a war in heaven/fall of the angels kind of myth. Unless Hextor was orginally good, and subsequently fell?

 

[The Druid Merlin]

Okay rbingham2000 so is this what your idea would look like.

Heironeous would have Archons and Lawful Angels as warriors
Pelor would have Guardianals and Neutral angels as his servants
Corellon would have the Eladrins and Chaotic angels as his servants
Hextor would have Devils
Vecna and Nerull would have Deamons
Erythnul would have Demons

 

[Cheiromancer]

Ummm. Isn't that the default assumption? That Hieroneous is served by angels and archons, Hextor by devils, and so on. In any case, I am trying to make sense of the War and Fall of the angels in terms of game mechanics. Knowing that Hextor is served by devils doesn't seem to help much. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the point you are trying to convey, I don't know.

I would like to add that I read the available chapters of the Gates of Hell, and I'm a little underwhelmed. Mythologically it is on par with Revenge of the Sith, IYKWIMAITYD. I would rather have Dante or Gaiman or Sepulchrave II.

 

[Tirlanolir]

Cheiro, I'm using a sort of monotheistic pantheon loosely based on Tales of Wyre (imitation is the sincerest form of praise). I rely heavily on Milton for my cosmology. Thus, the demons in the abyss long pre-date the existence of Hell. Hell is formed from a piece of what was once the Abyss that The Lord of Heaven took from the Abyss to contain the fallen angels. In Book II or III of Paradise Lost, Satan leaves Hell and travels to the Abyss (right next door) and there meets Demogorgon, also known as Chaos and the creator of all. In his court is Orcus (god of the underworld--based off of the greek god Hades) and Night (the oldest of beings), out of which Chaos (Demogorgon?) was formed. Thus, IMC demons pre-date the fall. But they are also constantly created in the breeding pits. In Paradise lost, Demogorgon assists Satan in finding Earth, because like Hell, Earth and the Prime (that great sphere of worlds referred to in Paradise Lost) was created from the Abyss (which presumably is everywhere) and the elemental planes which surround the planes. Thus, while Demogorgon and crew resent the fact that part of their domain was taken from them and is now populated by devils, they hate The Lord of Heaven more for creating Hell in the first place, then adding insult to injury by creating the Prime Material Plane, in part, from the substance of the Abyss. Thus, the Abyss and Hell have combined hatred for The Lord of Heaven, and the Blood War exists as a matter of territorial expansion or reclamation.

IMC demons and the Abyss also pre-existed The Lord of Heaven. This concept, of course, is blasphemous to a follower of The Lord of Heaven. But it leaves open the possibility and probability that other gods exists. Eventually, this will become a plot point in the game. But I digress.

Because fallen angels populate only Hell, from a Miltonian perspective, it would be necessary only to compare celestials with devils to determine what they become when they fall. I like a poster's idea that it depends on the soul of the celestial. In fact, that is how it is IMC. Each devil has certain personality traits, which I try to connect with the concept of the 7 deadly sins as depicted in Dante's Inferno. A celestrial becomes the devil type that most correlates with that sin, or if no such devil exists, with the type of devil that primarily populates the layer of Hell appropriate for that sin, as depicted by Dante.

 

[dungeon]

the 7th sun

fiends come from an inner dimension called the 7th sun. fiends are very smart creatures, they can have there own citys, but what i would suggest is that u make a story where a portal was "exadentlly" opened and a thousand fiends escaped the 7th sun plaine, and fiends do have rank. the lowest rank for a fiend would be a gargole, then theres hell spawns. then theres balrogs...(from lord of the rings) and demon fiends, and the one who is there god: the hell demon! now your partys job may be to kill all the fiends in this diminsion. (it could also punishment for... lets say 1 of the players "exadentlly" opened the portal to the 7th sun and let 1000 fiends escape the portal, but the player was able to close the portal just before the demon or/and fiend god could enter. so your character has just barely saved the world from a huge war between 2 demensions, but was still punished cuz... 1000 fiends esacped and now u have to stop them. ( this could turn into a campaign.)

but remember..."cuz if u don't u will never explore the dungeon"
(if u like my slogun or just want to talk email me)
:\ greywulf: maybe your right about that there shouldn't be a rank for fiends.