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General Tabletop Discussion
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Which class do you hate the most?
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5839928" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Sure they can. But, core Fighters still cannot.</p><p></p><p>And even these classes showed up 2 years after the game system was released.</p><p></p><p>Having it now by picking a different class doesn't mean that the 4E game wasn't designed to make it extremely difficult for Fighters in the first place.</p><p></p><p>And, this didn't start in 4E, it merely arrived in 4E. It started in 3E with the introduction of feats. Melee fighting is inevitable as a general rule for a Fighter PC, so every player that I've ever seen play a Fighter has always taken at least some melee feats, even if they prefer to do ranged combat. But, 3E at least had Fighter bonus feats that could be used for ranged attacking.</p><p></p><p>This problem did not really exist at all in 1E or 2E. If a Fighter had a decent Dex, that PC could fire off 1 or 2 shots with a bow for a round or two and then close in for melee. This is a somewhat difficult standard D&D character Fighter concept to achieve with 3E or 4E without going through hoops (like taking a subclass or a prestige class or being a Ranger instead or some such).</p><p></p><p>Even rules like strapping on a Shield takes a Standard action in 4E is anathema to a Fighter that prefers to shoot from range until close combat is required. At least 3E had it as a Move action.</p><p></p><p>4E dropped the concept of a Fighter being a ranged specialist completely in order for Fighters to be Defenders. Yes, Essentials brought it back a little, but it really is a bit of an issue when the game system tries to straight jacket PCs like this.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5839928, member: 2011"] Sure they can. But, core Fighters still cannot. And even these classes showed up 2 years after the game system was released. Having it now by picking a different class doesn't mean that the 4E game wasn't designed to make it extremely difficult for Fighters in the first place. And, this didn't start in 4E, it merely arrived in 4E. It started in 3E with the introduction of feats. Melee fighting is inevitable as a general rule for a Fighter PC, so every player that I've ever seen play a Fighter has always taken at least some melee feats, even if they prefer to do ranged combat. But, 3E at least had Fighter bonus feats that could be used for ranged attacking. This problem did not really exist at all in 1E or 2E. If a Fighter had a decent Dex, that PC could fire off 1 or 2 shots with a bow for a round or two and then close in for melee. This is a somewhat difficult standard D&D character Fighter concept to achieve with 3E or 4E without going through hoops (like taking a subclass or a prestige class or being a Ranger instead or some such). Even rules like strapping on a Shield takes a Standard action in 4E is anathema to a Fighter that prefers to shoot from range until close combat is required. At least 3E had it as a Move action. 4E dropped the concept of a Fighter being a ranged specialist completely in order for Fighters to be Defenders. Yes, Essentials brought it back a little, but it really is a bit of an issue when the game system tries to straight jacket PCs like this. [/QUOTE]
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Which class do you hate the most?
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