Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Which type of True Neutral are you?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9312369" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I don't personally find the idea of sociality in the sense you are using it being inherently contradictory to individuality. While it is clearly the case with social insects giving up their individual rights and sacrificing themselves for the good of the hive that this is a lawful conception of social organization, it is not at all clear that a social herd animal like a horse is giving up its individuality by being part of a social band. Chaoticness, at least to the extent that it is expressed by mere animals and humans, does not preclude strong emotional attachment to others, and indeed as I conceive it "friendship" as it is usually conceived of as a free association between peers who mutually value each other is a strong "Chaotic" concept and the basis of sociality within chaotic communities because it's non-hierarchical and leaves all parties to define the boundaries individually without enforcing obligations. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> </p><p></p><p>For some conceptions of what evil is. Notably, both Gygax and many other commentators tend to view "Lawful Good" as "most good" and "Chaotic Evil" as "most evil". Third Edition commentators tended to indirectly reinforce this viewpoint by defining Evil as "selfishness". I reject this description as inadequate and missing the point.</p><p></p><p>I believe this is a bias brought to the discussion by people whose predisposition culturally is to see "Good" as aligned with "Law" - even if they reject that "Good" and "Law" are morally correct. For example, people who reject "Good" and "Law" as morally correct are still highly likely to see "Lawful Good" as "most Good" while strongly promoting the "Paladins are jerks/Paladins are morally deficient" model that is at times the default view of Paladin behavior. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Natural vs. Constructed is adjacent to but I think not completely aligned with the standard view of the Law/Chaos axis within D&D. A Lawful Neutral would object to the idea that the natural world is not ordered and regulated by law. They would not see the world as inherently unordered except where tradition, civilization, and law brought order to it. Rather they would see all of those things as part of the intended natural order and chaos as the absence of the intended order.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now that seems a telling confession of your real-world philosophy. "I have looked for our rights in the laws of nature and can find them only in the laws of political society."? On that note though, I do think one of the most difficult contradictions that the standard D&D model struggles to describe are societies organized and regulated to support and protect the individual and individuality. But I suppose an Anarchist would probably argue that such constructs are ultimately false and misguided and will succumb ultimately to their internal contradictions. The converse though is equally bizarre, as for example the Feudal structure is highly hierarchical and subject to external regulation, but the basis of its organization is individual private contract. Lawful or chaotic? But, well, there are always going to be edge cases and "neutral" offers a refuge for the weirder constructions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9312369, member: 4937"] I don't personally find the idea of sociality in the sense you are using it being inherently contradictory to individuality. While it is clearly the case with social insects giving up their individual rights and sacrificing themselves for the good of the hive that this is a lawful conception of social organization, it is not at all clear that a social herd animal like a horse is giving up its individuality by being part of a social band. Chaoticness, at least to the extent that it is expressed by mere animals and humans, does not preclude strong emotional attachment to others, and indeed as I conceive it "friendship" as it is usually conceived of as a free association between peers who mutually value each other is a strong "Chaotic" concept and the basis of sociality within chaotic communities because it's non-hierarchical and leaves all parties to define the boundaries individually without enforcing obligations. :D For some conceptions of what evil is. Notably, both Gygax and many other commentators tend to view "Lawful Good" as "most good" and "Chaotic Evil" as "most evil". Third Edition commentators tended to indirectly reinforce this viewpoint by defining Evil as "selfishness". I reject this description as inadequate and missing the point. I believe this is a bias brought to the discussion by people whose predisposition culturally is to see "Good" as aligned with "Law" - even if they reject that "Good" and "Law" are morally correct. For example, people who reject "Good" and "Law" as morally correct are still highly likely to see "Lawful Good" as "most Good" while strongly promoting the "Paladins are jerks/Paladins are morally deficient" model that is at times the default view of Paladin behavior. Natural vs. Constructed is adjacent to but I think not completely aligned with the standard view of the Law/Chaos axis within D&D. A Lawful Neutral would object to the idea that the natural world is not ordered and regulated by law. They would not see the world as inherently unordered except where tradition, civilization, and law brought order to it. Rather they would see all of those things as part of the intended natural order and chaos as the absence of the intended order. Now that seems a telling confession of your real-world philosophy. "I have looked for our rights in the laws of nature and can find them only in the laws of political society."? On that note though, I do think one of the most difficult contradictions that the standard D&D model struggles to describe are societies organized and regulated to support and protect the individual and individuality. But I suppose an Anarchist would probably argue that such constructs are ultimately false and misguided and will succumb ultimately to their internal contradictions. The converse though is equally bizarre, as for example the Feudal structure is highly hierarchical and subject to external regulation, but the basis of its organization is individual private contract. Lawful or chaotic? But, well, there are always going to be edge cases and "neutral" offers a refuge for the weirder constructions. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Which type of True Neutral are you?
Top