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<blockquote data-quote="Scrivener of Doom" data-source="post: 7003583" data-attributes="member: 87576"><p>You're right: That is both insightful and sad.</p><p></p><p>I think it's fair to conclude that the D&D fan base is dominated by nostalgia both when it comes to rules and to adventures. No wonder 5E seems to be succeeding!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would put this really bluntly: Paizo APs work better with 4E. It's easier for the DM to run and it forces the DM to remove a lot of the grind that the APs otherwise rely on to get the PCs to the right level for the next grindfest.</p><p></p><p>Similar to your experience, I find it difficult to go back (yes, I consider it a backwards step) and play 5E. I don't enjoy those constipated feelings that come from playing what is, in effect, an earlier edition. I mean, looking up spells in a book? Stuff that. I want everything on my character sheet. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I loved 3.5E until I discovered 4E and learnt that I could build a stat block in under 20 minutes no matter what level monster or NPC. </p><p></p><p>3.5E was becoming a full time job as a DM. If I relied on the pre-built stat blocks they were full of errors plus I needed to do almost as much work looking up feats and spells as I would have done building them myself and learning the feats and spells that way. And the amount of work I put into a stat block had no effect on how long I would be able to use it in play. No, I cannot go back to that... and 5E is much the same.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I DM 99% of the time. I don't have any interest in playing. So, as a DM, I look at 5E - which I have both run and played - and all I can see are how it's going to have the same problems as 1E and 3.5E as time moves on. Like 1E, playing theatre-of-the-mind with a system that relies heavily on strict measurements is ultimately going to require grids and minis for times when players would otherwise want to argue with the DM and like 3.5E it's still a lot of work to play a complicated monster because you still have to look things up, like spells, that appear on the stat block.</p><p></p><p>More power to 5E because I do like to see D&D succeeding but the problems that 4E solved are still there. But that's clearly OK because, as stated above, nostalgia is clearly of vital importance to the D&D fan base. And that nostalgia trumps a lot of the elegance of 4E design.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scrivener of Doom, post: 7003583, member: 87576"] You're right: That is both insightful and sad. I think it's fair to conclude that the D&D fan base is dominated by nostalgia both when it comes to rules and to adventures. No wonder 5E seems to be succeeding! I would put this really bluntly: Paizo APs work better with 4E. It's easier for the DM to run and it forces the DM to remove a lot of the grind that the APs otherwise rely on to get the PCs to the right level for the next grindfest. Similar to your experience, I find it difficult to go back (yes, I consider it a backwards step) and play 5E. I don't enjoy those constipated feelings that come from playing what is, in effect, an earlier edition. I mean, looking up spells in a book? Stuff that. I want everything on my character sheet. I loved 3.5E until I discovered 4E and learnt that I could build a stat block in under 20 minutes no matter what level monster or NPC. 3.5E was becoming a full time job as a DM. If I relied on the pre-built stat blocks they were full of errors plus I needed to do almost as much work looking up feats and spells as I would have done building them myself and learning the feats and spells that way. And the amount of work I put into a stat block had no effect on how long I would be able to use it in play. No, I cannot go back to that... and 5E is much the same. I DM 99% of the time. I don't have any interest in playing. So, as a DM, I look at 5E - which I have both run and played - and all I can see are how it's going to have the same problems as 1E and 3.5E as time moves on. Like 1E, playing theatre-of-the-mind with a system that relies heavily on strict measurements is ultimately going to require grids and minis for times when players would otherwise want to argue with the DM and like 3.5E it's still a lot of work to play a complicated monster because you still have to look things up, like spells, that appear on the stat block. More power to 5E because I do like to see D&D succeeding but the problems that 4E solved are still there. But that's clearly OK because, as stated above, nostalgia is clearly of vital importance to the D&D fan base. And that nostalgia trumps a lot of the elegance of 4E design. [/QUOTE]
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