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Why Did "Solo" and "Rogue One" Feel Like RPG Sessions?
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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 7750373" data-attributes="member: 177"><p>I think there's a good point here. </p><p></p><p>What is the difference between a "Mary Sue" and a protagonist who goes about difficult tasks and by dint of competence, grit, aptitude, and other positive qualities manages to succeed?</p><p></p><p>Anyone here seen or read The Martian? Mark Watney (playd by Matt Damon in the movie) is incredibly competent and strong of will and heart. He survives and achieves in scenarios that would kill lesser men. Making it through his ordeal is, quite simply, stretching credulity. Is he a Mary Sue, just because he is competent?</p><p></p><p>Looking back to many of the early classics of science fiction - Doc Savage. E.E. "Doc" Smith's Lensmen series. Batman. Let us add in Sherlock Holmes. These are all characters who are all exceedingly good at what they do. More recently, there's Locke Lamora who is highly competent. On TV, there's the entire team of Leverage who are exceedingly competent. We might also want to talk about Harry Potter in this group. </p><p></p><p>Somewhere, there's a differentiation between a Mary Sue, and good old fashioned Competence Porn.</p><p></p><p>So, the original Mary Sue comes from a piece of Star Trek fanfic, written *as a satire of fanfic*. Their original usual qualities are that they are female, young, beautiful, have unprecedented competence in many areas, and (as a fanfic character) gain the love of one or more of the original protagonists. The male equivalent, instead of being handsome, is often a jerk to those around him, sometimes to the point of being abusive, but the women flock to him anyway. In its more egregious form, the Mary Sue specifically and explicitly is better at specialties that are the signature of other characters in the original work - they are smarter than Spock, can beat Worf in a fight, and are better telepaths than Troi, and so on. </p><p></p><p>Now, there is some question as to whether in their original form, thinking of a Mary Sue as somehow bad may be a tad sexist - in an era where women were under-represented in genre literature, to insert a woman who has the positive traits of the men (competent and attractive, basically) is... wrong? Really? </p><p></p><p>So, consider that as you approach the topic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 7750373, member: 177"] I think there's a good point here. What is the difference between a "Mary Sue" and a protagonist who goes about difficult tasks and by dint of competence, grit, aptitude, and other positive qualities manages to succeed? Anyone here seen or read The Martian? Mark Watney (playd by Matt Damon in the movie) is incredibly competent and strong of will and heart. He survives and achieves in scenarios that would kill lesser men. Making it through his ordeal is, quite simply, stretching credulity. Is he a Mary Sue, just because he is competent? Looking back to many of the early classics of science fiction - Doc Savage. E.E. "Doc" Smith's Lensmen series. Batman. Let us add in Sherlock Holmes. These are all characters who are all exceedingly good at what they do. More recently, there's Locke Lamora who is highly competent. On TV, there's the entire team of Leverage who are exceedingly competent. We might also want to talk about Harry Potter in this group. Somewhere, there's a differentiation between a Mary Sue, and good old fashioned Competence Porn. So, the original Mary Sue comes from a piece of Star Trek fanfic, written *as a satire of fanfic*. Their original usual qualities are that they are female, young, beautiful, have unprecedented competence in many areas, and (as a fanfic character) gain the love of one or more of the original protagonists. The male equivalent, instead of being handsome, is often a jerk to those around him, sometimes to the point of being abusive, but the women flock to him anyway. In its more egregious form, the Mary Sue specifically and explicitly is better at specialties that are the signature of other characters in the original work - they are smarter than Spock, can beat Worf in a fight, and are better telepaths than Troi, and so on. Now, there is some question as to whether in their original form, thinking of a Mary Sue as somehow bad may be a tad sexist - in an era where women were under-represented in genre literature, to insert a woman who has the positive traits of the men (competent and attractive, basically) is... wrong? Really? So, consider that as you approach the topic. [/QUOTE]
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