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Why Do Batman Fans Hate Christopher Nolan?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6285347" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Since I seem to be the one that provoked the question, and since I'm bowing out of the thread that seems likely to challenge 'Do Alignments Improve...' for most wasted verbiage, I might as well answer you.</p><p></p><p>I actually don't hate Christopher Nolan per se, but I do find it to be largely a triumph of style over substance. I also think that a lot of the praise heaped on the movies stem more from what it isn't rather than what it is - it isn't a campy take on the material in style of the old Batman TV serials or the Tim Burton movies. I think that change and shift to seriousness garnered Nolan a lot of credit from fans that were seriously tired of their favorite superhero being treated like a joke character.</p><p></p><p>But in terms of actually find them good, no, I don't find them good. I find them highly overrated. I found the situations and plots to be highly contrived and often illogical. I thought the movies were poorly paced with just too much material crammed into the movie, too many villains, too little focus and character development, and way too much 'darker and edgier' for its own sake. In many ways, none of the movies significantly improve over the Tim Burton crap and make almost all the same mistakes. Batman Begins gives us both Ra's Al Ghul and The Scarecrow - both of which could fill up a movie on their own - on top of trying to do protagonist origins exposition. The movie doesn't even really get started until 53 minutes into it, and then it has to resolve an overly complex plot involving two villains each of which also has to be introduced. Why?!?!? Who thought that was a good idea? The Dark Knight gives us both the Joker and Two Face, each of which could carry a movie. Why does a batman movie need 2-3 villains in every movie anyway? No other superhero movie seems to need to be so unfocused. </p><p></p><p>And I found Heath Ledger to be absolutely terrible as the Joker, although it part because the part was written so badly. The joker is supposed to be actually charming, entertaining and funny - which is supposed to act in contrast to his complete brutality and disregard for life. He got maybe one joke in the entire movie. Mark Hamil is the only actor who has ever 'got' the joker and been given appropriate script to read for the character. Ironically, I think I would have liked the Tim Burton casting better if they'd reversed some of it: Jim Carrey playing the irrepressible wildly over the top Joker, and Jack Nicholson as the prim, proper and yet explosively psychotic Riddler. You need a comedian in one and a dramatic actor in the other, and they just got it wrong.</p><p></p><p>But, there are a couple of good scenes in each movie that save it from being utter crap. In particular, The Dark Knight is almost redeemed in a single scene when the prisoner says, "I'm going to do what you should have done from the start..." That's a really well written scene in the midst of an otherwise tedious movie. </p><p></p><p>But I was overall so disappointed by second movie I didn't even bother to watch the third.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6285347, member: 4937"] Since I seem to be the one that provoked the question, and since I'm bowing out of the thread that seems likely to challenge 'Do Alignments Improve...' for most wasted verbiage, I might as well answer you. I actually don't hate Christopher Nolan per se, but I do find it to be largely a triumph of style over substance. I also think that a lot of the praise heaped on the movies stem more from what it isn't rather than what it is - it isn't a campy take on the material in style of the old Batman TV serials or the Tim Burton movies. I think that change and shift to seriousness garnered Nolan a lot of credit from fans that were seriously tired of their favorite superhero being treated like a joke character. But in terms of actually find them good, no, I don't find them good. I find them highly overrated. I found the situations and plots to be highly contrived and often illogical. I thought the movies were poorly paced with just too much material crammed into the movie, too many villains, too little focus and character development, and way too much 'darker and edgier' for its own sake. In many ways, none of the movies significantly improve over the Tim Burton crap and make almost all the same mistakes. Batman Begins gives us both Ra's Al Ghul and The Scarecrow - both of which could fill up a movie on their own - on top of trying to do protagonist origins exposition. The movie doesn't even really get started until 53 minutes into it, and then it has to resolve an overly complex plot involving two villains each of which also has to be introduced. Why?!?!? Who thought that was a good idea? The Dark Knight gives us both the Joker and Two Face, each of which could carry a movie. Why does a batman movie need 2-3 villains in every movie anyway? No other superhero movie seems to need to be so unfocused. And I found Heath Ledger to be absolutely terrible as the Joker, although it part because the part was written so badly. The joker is supposed to be actually charming, entertaining and funny - which is supposed to act in contrast to his complete brutality and disregard for life. He got maybe one joke in the entire movie. Mark Hamil is the only actor who has ever 'got' the joker and been given appropriate script to read for the character. Ironically, I think I would have liked the Tim Burton casting better if they'd reversed some of it: Jim Carrey playing the irrepressible wildly over the top Joker, and Jack Nicholson as the prim, proper and yet explosively psychotic Riddler. You need a comedian in one and a dramatic actor in the other, and they just got it wrong. But, there are a couple of good scenes in each movie that save it from being utter crap. In particular, The Dark Knight is almost redeemed in a single scene when the prisoner says, "I'm going to do what you should have done from the start..." That's a really well written scene in the midst of an otherwise tedious movie. But I was overall so disappointed by second movie I didn't even bother to watch the third. [/QUOTE]
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