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<blockquote data-quote="Zimri" data-source="post: 4746187" data-attributes="member: 15991"><p>Najo implied that it mattered because of lack of support for the industry or some such I was refuting that claim with that statement. and well most of that post.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes a hundred times yes in each of those cases I have taken something from you. You no longer possess or control it and I do. Heck in both cases the "permanency" qualification is met as well because well the pen doesn't work and I have deprived you of the interest you would have earned for the time I had the money were I to put it back.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Deprive the owner Permanently of the :</p><p></p><p>1. Possession: Nope wotc still has possession of exactly as many as they had possession of before. If I uploaded a virus to WOTC that deleted theirs after I made my copy then they would no longer have possession</p><p></p><p>2. Use: No they can still do everything with it they used to be able to. If I had it redacted, made it non transmissible, or corrupted it so it couldn't be opened then they could claim that they could no longer use it.</p><p></p><p>3. Benefit: This is the strongest case to be made however to make it you need to show that they were harmed in some manner. The benefit they hope to incur is obviously profit from the sale of the PDFs. So then the questions are : (and I have yet to see good answers for any of these)</p><p></p><p>A: Would the people that downloaded free illegal PDFs had ever spent the money on the legal ones ?</p><p></p><p>B: Did the downloads of illegal PDFs negatively impact PDF or Hardcopy sales ?</p><p></p><p>C: Did the downloads of illegal PDFs positively impact hardcopy sales (yes even I won't try to argue that it would have increased legal PDF sales) ?</p><p></p><p>D: Did any positive impact to hardcopy sales (either via browsing of a pdf then hard copy purchase, or exposure of the hobby as a whole) outweigh any negative impact ?</p><p></p><p>E: What has this whole issue and the handling thereof done to community of hobbyists both in regard to how we see ourselves and WOTC and how the outside world views WOTC and the hobby/hobbyists ?</p><p></p><p>Points A through E become relevant because they deal with loss of benefit (ie profit if more is gained then lost then was there a loss of benefit ?). </p><p></p><p>But again apparently (and I thank the lawyer for pointing this out) Permanency is an issue so I am guessing that so long as the PDFs could be made to self erase in 99 years that would make them non permanent and thus not covered. Of course any PDFs I have legal or otherwise would have long since expired of "natural" causes (computer upgrades or hard drive wipes, cd/dvd scratches etcetera) within that time anyway.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As to the rest of your post I won't comment as I find it insulting and derogatory.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zimri, post: 4746187, member: 15991"] Najo implied that it mattered because of lack of support for the industry or some such I was refuting that claim with that statement. and well most of that post. Yes a hundred times yes in each of those cases I have taken something from you. You no longer possess or control it and I do. Heck in both cases the "permanency" qualification is met as well because well the pen doesn't work and I have deprived you of the interest you would have earned for the time I had the money were I to put it back. Deprive the owner Permanently of the : 1. Possession: Nope wotc still has possession of exactly as many as they had possession of before. If I uploaded a virus to WOTC that deleted theirs after I made my copy then they would no longer have possession 2. Use: No they can still do everything with it they used to be able to. If I had it redacted, made it non transmissible, or corrupted it so it couldn't be opened then they could claim that they could no longer use it. 3. Benefit: This is the strongest case to be made however to make it you need to show that they were harmed in some manner. The benefit they hope to incur is obviously profit from the sale of the PDFs. So then the questions are : (and I have yet to see good answers for any of these) A: Would the people that downloaded free illegal PDFs had ever spent the money on the legal ones ? B: Did the downloads of illegal PDFs negatively impact PDF or Hardcopy sales ? C: Did the downloads of illegal PDFs positively impact hardcopy sales (yes even I won't try to argue that it would have increased legal PDF sales) ? D: Did any positive impact to hardcopy sales (either via browsing of a pdf then hard copy purchase, or exposure of the hobby as a whole) outweigh any negative impact ? E: What has this whole issue and the handling thereof done to community of hobbyists both in regard to how we see ourselves and WOTC and how the outside world views WOTC and the hobby/hobbyists ? Points A through E become relevant because they deal with loss of benefit (ie profit if more is gained then lost then was there a loss of benefit ?). But again apparently (and I thank the lawyer for pointing this out) Permanency is an issue so I am guessing that so long as the PDFs could be made to self erase in 99 years that would make them non permanent and thus not covered. Of course any PDFs I have legal or otherwise would have long since expired of "natural" causes (computer upgrades or hard drive wipes, cd/dvd scratches etcetera) within that time anyway. As to the rest of your post I won't comment as I find it insulting and derogatory. [/QUOTE]
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