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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7149519" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>So, we are in violent agreement and my laughter at such is justified <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Breadth of Coverage? What does the god of Undeath do that Orcus doesn’t? Bodaks, Ghouls and Liches are all traced back to creations of Orcus, so he’s making undead. His goal is a world full of undead with no living beings remaining. </p><p></p><p>So creating, empowering and spreading Undead... what more is there? What cosmic job does the God of Undeath do that Orcus doesn’t do plus more? </p><p></p><p>But more importantly, why not consider them as gods? Why can’t Orcus hold sway over Undeath and there be no god of undeath</p><p></p><p>To use your store analogy, you’ve got a Wal-Mart, Krogers, Fulmers, and Meijers. Sure, only one of them is Wal-Mart with it’s massive corporation, but if you’ve got all four at the same intersection it just seems weird because they all offer just about the same things. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>“The Solars”, but we know next to nothing about them. They aren’t figures that are named or have much of a presence. </p><p></p><p>Out of curiosity I checked their MM entry. They are very powerful, and could potentially take on most of the Demon Lords from Out of the Abyss, as long as they could keep their distance and kite the Demon Lord. If they are forced into an even fight they would lose the majority of the time. Heck, Orcus actually has a decent shot if he can cast time stop, because he removes their immunity to necrotic and makes them vulnerable instead and then summons undead to attack with readied actions when the time stop ends. </p><p></p><p>But even if the Solars are the equivalent of the Demon Lords, that just makes the problem worse. The forces of good would then be five or six times more powerful than the forces of evil, so why does evil still exist? If the God of Death who hates undead and two solars under his command could waltz into the Abyss and destroy Orcus who is a source of so many undead and their evil, and he doesn’t just because... he chooses not to? That makes no sense, his cosmic job is to remove undeath from the world and he could destroy this source of undeath in the world and just chooses not to do it. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, beings that are maybe as strong as the weakest level of deity can gang up and destroy Lolth, who is a full-fledged Deity (though lesser) who also has the power and rank of a Demon Lord, because to be a Demon Lord you simply need to own a layer of the Abyss, which she does. </p><p></p><p>And her portfolios are Chaos and Evil, both of which the Abyss exemplifies. As well as Destruction and Assassination, which can be justified as her taking control of the Abyss and turning it towards her ends. </p><p></p><p>I mean, not just Lolth, a lot of the Evil Deities listed (some of them Major) could benefit from ruling the Abyss or the Hells. Heck, Bane is the God of Tyranny, why isn’t he ruling the tyrannical hells himself, it fits like a glove. </p><p></p><p>Ah, right, WoTC decided we needed demons, devils, and evil gods and they all “serve a purpose” </p><p></p><p>Frankly, it doesn’t make sense. I hate having to hand-wave “it’s just because” instead of having it be something that makes sense. </p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>A lot of these are great ideas. I will say a lot of tropical lizards also eat fruits, so a fruit farm wouldn’t be too biologically weird. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But you’ve got to be really careful about that stuff when god can literally send an angel to smite you for misusing his teachings. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I know that was the case in 4e, but I don’t know if I heard it before then or not. </p><p></p><p>Honestly, I can accept your logic above as something that makes more sense as to the balance between Gods and the Lower Planes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7149519, member: 6801228"] So, we are in violent agreement and my laughter at such is justified :P Breadth of Coverage? What does the god of Undeath do that Orcus doesn’t? Bodaks, Ghouls and Liches are all traced back to creations of Orcus, so he’s making undead. His goal is a world full of undead with no living beings remaining. So creating, empowering and spreading Undead... what more is there? What cosmic job does the God of Undeath do that Orcus doesn’t do plus more? But more importantly, why not consider them as gods? Why can’t Orcus hold sway over Undeath and there be no god of undeath To use your store analogy, you’ve got a Wal-Mart, Krogers, Fulmers, and Meijers. Sure, only one of them is Wal-Mart with it’s massive corporation, but if you’ve got all four at the same intersection it just seems weird because they all offer just about the same things. “The Solars”, but we know next to nothing about them. They aren’t figures that are named or have much of a presence. Out of curiosity I checked their MM entry. They are very powerful, and could potentially take on most of the Demon Lords from Out of the Abyss, as long as they could keep their distance and kite the Demon Lord. If they are forced into an even fight they would lose the majority of the time. Heck, Orcus actually has a decent shot if he can cast time stop, because he removes their immunity to necrotic and makes them vulnerable instead and then summons undead to attack with readied actions when the time stop ends. But even if the Solars are the equivalent of the Demon Lords, that just makes the problem worse. The forces of good would then be five or six times more powerful than the forces of evil, so why does evil still exist? If the God of Death who hates undead and two solars under his command could waltz into the Abyss and destroy Orcus who is a source of so many undead and their evil, and he doesn’t just because... he chooses not to? That makes no sense, his cosmic job is to remove undeath from the world and he could destroy this source of undeath in the world and just chooses not to do it. So, beings that are maybe as strong as the weakest level of deity can gang up and destroy Lolth, who is a full-fledged Deity (though lesser) who also has the power and rank of a Demon Lord, because to be a Demon Lord you simply need to own a layer of the Abyss, which she does. And her portfolios are Chaos and Evil, both of which the Abyss exemplifies. As well as Destruction and Assassination, which can be justified as her taking control of the Abyss and turning it towards her ends. I mean, not just Lolth, a lot of the Evil Deities listed (some of them Major) could benefit from ruling the Abyss or the Hells. Heck, Bane is the God of Tyranny, why isn’t he ruling the tyrannical hells himself, it fits like a glove. Ah, right, WoTC decided we needed demons, devils, and evil gods and they all “serve a purpose” Frankly, it doesn’t make sense. I hate having to hand-wave “it’s just because” instead of having it be something that makes sense. A lot of these are great ideas. I will say a lot of tropical lizards also eat fruits, so a fruit farm wouldn’t be too biologically weird. But you’ve got to be really careful about that stuff when god can literally send an angel to smite you for misusing his teachings. I know that was the case in 4e, but I don’t know if I heard it before then or not. Honestly, I can accept your logic above as something that makes more sense as to the balance between Gods and the Lower Planes. [/QUOTE]
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