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Why is/was Shadowrun more popular than Cyberpunk?
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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 9161488" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>Yeah, Dune's on the Fantasy side, but it's strongly in the socio-political sci-fi tradition. </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Bene Gesserit are <em>Pure «bleep»ing Magic (PF«»M)</em>. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Spice? P«»M. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ginaz Swordsmen? Super plausible. But the school itself is reliant on supertech - Holtzman Effect body shields.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mentats? <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As training? BS. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As a separate genome? Plausible, but not Dune.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">FTL? Highly unlikely. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As a spice-fueled psionic talent? P«»M!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As a technological breakthrough? barely plausible. And present in Dune - both Pre-Butlerian-Jihad, and late- and post- God-Emperor period.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">other, non-FTL, Holtzman Effect Devices (HEDs) - Still very vaguely plausible, but pushing the envelope.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The interaction of Lasers and Holtzman fields? If we accept that HEDs are plausible (not a given), that lasers interact poorly with them, when other light sources don't, is problematic. P«»M due to plot need.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Many, many, many inhabitable worlds? The more we look, the more the Copernican Principle (the principle that we're nothing extremely special in the universe) is looking to be in error. So the massively habitable universe of the Dune Setting is less and less likely.</li> </ul><p>The thing is, only the spice is key to the setting... Bene Gesserit and Mentats can be dropped with little effect; they're mostly to make Mua'dib less outlandish. The Ginaz? A probability if we accept the HED shields and their nasty interaction with Lasers. </p><p></p><p>And why does this matter? Because what's compelling for Roleplay in the Dune setting isn't what's story essential... it's all the other ephemera that surround the main story - that make it different from our own life experiences.</p><p></p><p>Cyberpunk (the genre, not the game), in the 80's and 90's, was predictive. It failed to predict accurately, but it has, largely, been accurate about what would be researched - totally unrealistic timescales in the fiction... but it's keys -- man-machine interfaces on a neural level -- are in fact one of Elon Musk's less advertised research projects -- Neuralink. We already have artificial hearing on a neural level: cochlear implants. Some cyber-eyes also are extant; not superhuman, not even good as human, but it's still early. If the optic nerve works, there's no reason cyber eyes can't exist. In fact, a few do. The first few cybernetic limbs which outdo natural human performance are out - spring based legs - and those look odd, but allow a significant increase in running speed for the ex-soldiers for whom they've been offered. Truly, the first superhuman cyberlimbs.</p><p></p><p>The problem? as I noted before, much of the tech in CP2013 and CP2020 was too clearly not going to happen in time. With Shadowrun, it's much easier to assume the return of Magic ends the major limitation of cybernetics - power sources.</p><p></p><p>Shadowrun also set itself much further away on the timeline - 2050 - vs CP2013 (aka CP v1) being set in.... 2013. CP2020 (aka v2) was in 2020... and we know it was totally wrong.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 9161488, member: 6779310"] Yeah, Dune's on the Fantasy side, but it's strongly in the socio-political sci-fi tradition. [LIST] [*]The Bene Gesserit are [I]Pure «bleep»ing Magic (PF«»M)[/I]. [*]The Spice? P«»M. [*]Ginaz Swordsmen? Super plausible. But the school itself is reliant on supertech - Holtzman Effect body shields. [*]Mentats? [LIST] [*]As training? BS. [*]As a separate genome? Plausible, but not Dune. [/LIST] [*]FTL? Highly unlikely. [LIST] [*]As a spice-fueled psionic talent? P«»M! [*]As a technological breakthrough? barely plausible. And present in Dune - both Pre-Butlerian-Jihad, and late- and post- God-Emperor period. [/LIST] [*]other, non-FTL, Holtzman Effect Devices (HEDs) - Still very vaguely plausible, but pushing the envelope. [LIST] [*]The interaction of Lasers and Holtzman fields? If we accept that HEDs are plausible (not a given), that lasers interact poorly with them, when other light sources don't, is problematic. P«»M due to plot need. [/LIST] [*]Many, many, many inhabitable worlds? The more we look, the more the Copernican Principle (the principle that we're nothing extremely special in the universe) is looking to be in error. So the massively habitable universe of the Dune Setting is less and less likely. [/LIST] The thing is, only the spice is key to the setting... Bene Gesserit and Mentats can be dropped with little effect; they're mostly to make Mua'dib less outlandish. The Ginaz? A probability if we accept the HED shields and their nasty interaction with Lasers. And why does this matter? Because what's compelling for Roleplay in the Dune setting isn't what's story essential... it's all the other ephemera that surround the main story - that make it different from our own life experiences. Cyberpunk (the genre, not the game), in the 80's and 90's, was predictive. It failed to predict accurately, but it has, largely, been accurate about what would be researched - totally unrealistic timescales in the fiction... but it's keys -- man-machine interfaces on a neural level -- are in fact one of Elon Musk's less advertised research projects -- Neuralink. We already have artificial hearing on a neural level: cochlear implants. Some cyber-eyes also are extant; not superhuman, not even good as human, but it's still early. If the optic nerve works, there's no reason cyber eyes can't exist. In fact, a few do. The first few cybernetic limbs which outdo natural human performance are out - spring based legs - and those look odd, but allow a significant increase in running speed for the ex-soldiers for whom they've been offered. Truly, the first superhuman cyberlimbs. The problem? as I noted before, much of the tech in CP2013 and CP2020 was too clearly not going to happen in time. With Shadowrun, it's much easier to assume the return of Magic ends the major limitation of cybernetics - power sources. Shadowrun also set itself much further away on the timeline - 2050 - vs CP2013 (aka CP v1) being set in.... 2013. CP2020 (aka v2) was in 2020... and we know it was totally wrong. [/QUOTE]
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