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Why isn't base attack a skill?
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<blockquote data-quote="Psion" data-source="post: 2717752" data-attributes="member: 172"><p>I get what you are getting at here, but it has nothing to do with being an entry level game.</p><p></p><p>It has to do with being an <em>accessible</em> game.</p><p></p><p>This conversation is interesting to me in part because I strongly considered whether such a thing would be possible (though I was more considering making a melee attack skill and missile attack skill...) I do think the d20 skill system is easy to use and flexible and considered whether it could be applied more broadly. BAB <em>did</em> seem an odd man out.</p><p></p><p>But I ran into the sorts of problems that I and others have mentioned earlier... the skill system only entertains two levels of skills access: in class and cross class. This is both good and bad. It's good because it does not require the complexity that Rolemaster did... complexity that I can say from actual experience with the game, made in much less accessible to the average gamer.</p><p></p><p>Despite claims by rules light advocates, I find that the skill system is something that the avarage gamer can grok. Which is not something I can say about role-master. I have never had a D&D player tell me that they just weren't getting the system, hand me their character sheet, and ask me to make their character for them.</p><p></p><p>But whereas in D&D you can have two levels of skill access, that is not enough to define attack skills under the existing framework, where there is a pretty compelling need for three different levels of combat competance, (which some even claim is insufficient.)</p><p></p><p>So the problem is if you use the skill system as is, you throw off the balance of the system as it exists unless you make special exceptions (which adds complication in and of itself) or you make the skill system more complex (which makes it less accessible.)</p><p></p><p>I think it would take a top down re-design to realize a workable compromise. But if you were willing to entertain that, I think it would be possible. I picture something like the existing system except that specific classes have a third "forte" skill category, and only fighter classes would have attack (and defense) skills as forte skills. And then, re-design the whole combat system, creatures, AC, etc., around that. </p><p></p><p>This of course, would mean that you shed all of your existing support. That was a deal killer for me in wasting too much time developing such a variant myself. Existing support is important to me, as I think it is for many gamers.</p><p></p><p>As it is, if you really want this, I'd say the easiest compromise is to treat BAB as pre-allocated skill points that you can pull out and put elsewhere. This makes a decent house rule since you can simply assume that most published characters don't take this option and you can ignore it if you don't need to do it. And most character will not need to use the option.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Psion, post: 2717752, member: 172"] I get what you are getting at here, but it has nothing to do with being an entry level game. It has to do with being an [i]accessible[/i] game. This conversation is interesting to me in part because I strongly considered whether such a thing would be possible (though I was more considering making a melee attack skill and missile attack skill...) I do think the d20 skill system is easy to use and flexible and considered whether it could be applied more broadly. BAB [i]did[/i] seem an odd man out. But I ran into the sorts of problems that I and others have mentioned earlier... the skill system only entertains two levels of skills access: in class and cross class. This is both good and bad. It's good because it does not require the complexity that Rolemaster did... complexity that I can say from actual experience with the game, made in much less accessible to the average gamer. Despite claims by rules light advocates, I find that the skill system is something that the avarage gamer can grok. Which is not something I can say about role-master. I have never had a D&D player tell me that they just weren't getting the system, hand me their character sheet, and ask me to make their character for them. But whereas in D&D you can have two levels of skill access, that is not enough to define attack skills under the existing framework, where there is a pretty compelling need for three different levels of combat competance, (which some even claim is insufficient.) So the problem is if you use the skill system as is, you throw off the balance of the system as it exists unless you make special exceptions (which adds complication in and of itself) or you make the skill system more complex (which makes it less accessible.) I think it would take a top down re-design to realize a workable compromise. But if you were willing to entertain that, I think it would be possible. I picture something like the existing system except that specific classes have a third "forte" skill category, and only fighter classes would have attack (and defense) skills as forte skills. And then, re-design the whole combat system, creatures, AC, etc., around that. This of course, would mean that you shed all of your existing support. That was a deal killer for me in wasting too much time developing such a variant myself. Existing support is important to me, as I think it is for many gamers. As it is, if you really want this, I'd say the easiest compromise is to treat BAB as pre-allocated skill points that you can pull out and put elsewhere. This makes a decent house rule since you can simply assume that most published characters don't take this option and you can ignore it if you don't need to do it. And most character will not need to use the option. [/QUOTE]
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Why isn't base attack a skill?
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