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Why Rules Cyclopedia is the ultimate D&D edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7057822" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Starting from that standpoint gets you to where you are at. Assuming however otherwise, gets you a very different answer. I would argue that few things are more self-evident than that not everyone wants the same thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are two basic problems with this argument. First, in my opinion the goal of combat is to create story, and to the extent that the crunch of the combat directly creates situation, then crunch puts people into story rather than takes it people out of story. It would take a rather long discussion to explain to you what I want in a combat system and why BECMI fails in it, but the core ideas is how often does the action precede or substitute for the idea of a mechanical roll. That is, how often does the player declare to do something, other than pick up a dice and say, "I attack, I rolled a X." And to the extent that players do do that often, how much support does the system provide for it.</p><p></p><p>Secondly, not all groups want to prioritize story goals over tactical crunch. Some groups consider story secondary to challenge.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're continually mistaking opinion for fact. But even to the extent that I agree with you, attacks of opportunity - being attacks - don't slow down combat. They lengthen the round, but since they contribute to combat ending (damage inflicted) they don't add a lot of time to the time combat plays out in. Secondly, I play 'theater of the mind' as often in 3e as I did in BECMI or 1e (you can pretty much always do it when there is just one relatively immobile foe), and to the extent that you don't track position in BECMI it even more becomes pointless burn down. Movement is part of combat - as even you suggested - and if it isn't happening or isn't meaningful, your combat is pointless and undramatic. I grant that 3e modifiers can get fiddly in some situations, but in theory this can happen in BECMI as well. That it doesn't does not inherently suggest good things about the combat (ei, all problems can be solved with a fireball, so why bother, or combat is not compelling so why try to optimize you chance of success?)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7057822, member: 4937"] Starting from that standpoint gets you to where you are at. Assuming however otherwise, gets you a very different answer. I would argue that few things are more self-evident than that not everyone wants the same thing. There are two basic problems with this argument. First, in my opinion the goal of combat is to create story, and to the extent that the crunch of the combat directly creates situation, then crunch puts people into story rather than takes it people out of story. It would take a rather long discussion to explain to you what I want in a combat system and why BECMI fails in it, but the core ideas is how often does the action precede or substitute for the idea of a mechanical roll. That is, how often does the player declare to do something, other than pick up a dice and say, "I attack, I rolled a X." And to the extent that players do do that often, how much support does the system provide for it. Secondly, not all groups want to prioritize story goals over tactical crunch. Some groups consider story secondary to challenge. You're continually mistaking opinion for fact. But even to the extent that I agree with you, attacks of opportunity - being attacks - don't slow down combat. They lengthen the round, but since they contribute to combat ending (damage inflicted) they don't add a lot of time to the time combat plays out in. Secondly, I play 'theater of the mind' as often in 3e as I did in BECMI or 1e (you can pretty much always do it when there is just one relatively immobile foe), and to the extent that you don't track position in BECMI it even more becomes pointless burn down. Movement is part of combat - as even you suggested - and if it isn't happening or isn't meaningful, your combat is pointless and undramatic. I grant that 3e modifiers can get fiddly in some situations, but in theory this can happen in BECMI as well. That it doesn't does not inherently suggest good things about the combat (ei, all problems can be solved with a fireball, so why bother, or combat is not compelling so why try to optimize you chance of success?) [/QUOTE]
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