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Why use D&D for a Simulationist style Game?
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<blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 6349026" data-attributes="member: 3400"><p>A whole lot of games have been poster children for sim play - just of different sorts of simulations. Traveller contains elements of simulating what an interstellar polity would be with communication traveling only about as fast as people can travel (no instant communications). It also has elements of simulating a rudimentary economy for speculative trade. D&D happens to have elements that simulate fantasy literary styles - particularly pulpy, combat ones by guys like Edgar Rice Burroughs.</p><p></p><p>I have a hard time saying that D&D has always been "primarily gamist" in its approach. Whenever you adapt some kind of other reality (be it real reality or genre reality), the main job you're doing is applying a gamist eye to the process. It's all about adapting some element into a playable game simulation of that element, but that doesn't make it "primarily gamist" in its approach, at least not how Hussar seems to be using the term. </p><p></p><p>As abstract as some of the rules in earlier editions of D&D before 4e, I still believe they hold more aspirations of simulation than 4e in many ways. Both games can be used to simulate aspects of fantasy literature, albeit with focuses on different styles of action. But if we were to compare multiclassing rules, for example, 4e drops a lot of the simulation aspects the previous editions held. In an effort to enable the player to create their particular character concepts, players can multiclass their fighter PC for an individual wizard spell to add to their suite of powers. There's barely even a nod to simulating a character gradually growing in wizardly power - elements that are included in previous editions in which wizards progress from neophyte 1st level casters whether they started as one in 1e/2e's multiclassing or picked it up later in 3e's version. It doesn't really matter whether or not any of the simulations in 1e-3e were "realistic" (as if that means much with respect to wizard characters), all of them simulate a growth in power common to the zero-to-hero focus of D&D and many stories about wizard apprentices. Sure, the structures are abstract and work in a game framework - but that doesn't stop them from simulating something that a lot of players find valuable and perhaps even necessary for their view of how an RPG should work.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="billd91, post: 6349026, member: 3400"] A whole lot of games have been poster children for sim play - just of different sorts of simulations. Traveller contains elements of simulating what an interstellar polity would be with communication traveling only about as fast as people can travel (no instant communications). It also has elements of simulating a rudimentary economy for speculative trade. D&D happens to have elements that simulate fantasy literary styles - particularly pulpy, combat ones by guys like Edgar Rice Burroughs. I have a hard time saying that D&D has always been "primarily gamist" in its approach. Whenever you adapt some kind of other reality (be it real reality or genre reality), the main job you're doing is applying a gamist eye to the process. It's all about adapting some element into a playable game simulation of that element, but that doesn't make it "primarily gamist" in its approach, at least not how Hussar seems to be using the term. As abstract as some of the rules in earlier editions of D&D before 4e, I still believe they hold more aspirations of simulation than 4e in many ways. Both games can be used to simulate aspects of fantasy literature, albeit with focuses on different styles of action. But if we were to compare multiclassing rules, for example, 4e drops a lot of the simulation aspects the previous editions held. In an effort to enable the player to create their particular character concepts, players can multiclass their fighter PC for an individual wizard spell to add to their suite of powers. There's barely even a nod to simulating a character gradually growing in wizardly power - elements that are included in previous editions in which wizards progress from neophyte 1st level casters whether they started as one in 1e/2e's multiclassing or picked it up later in 3e's version. It doesn't really matter whether or not any of the simulations in 1e-3e were "realistic" (as if that means much with respect to wizard characters), all of them simulate a growth in power common to the zero-to-hero focus of D&D and many stories about wizard apprentices. Sure, the structures are abstract and work in a game framework - but that doesn't stop them from simulating something that a lot of players find valuable and perhaps even necessary for their view of how an RPG should work. [/QUOTE]
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Why use D&D for a Simulationist style Game?
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