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Why use D&D for a Simulationist style Game?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6349921" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>*shrug* I'm not here to defend or even anayse Sorcerer, a game I've never played - though from what I know of it I think it includes techniques, such as "kickers", which mean that it is not "just as GM controlled" as a game like Pendragon or CoC. And I personally think the techniques presented in a game like Burning Wheel are clearly different from those in a game like RQ or Pendragon or Ars Magica, as far as distribution of authority, and approach to scene-framing and action resolution, are concerned.</p><p></p><p>This passage is from Edwards' <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/narr_essay.html" target="_blank">"Story Now" essay</a>, written in 2003:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Looking at earlier games from a Techniques perspective, a shift to Narrativist play within the larger Gamist context is apparent in some <em>Tunnels & Trolls</em>, as discusssed in "Gamism: Step On Up". I also recommend reading and playing <em>Marvel Super Heroes</em>, reviewing the entire <em>Strike Force</em> text in light of the 1st and 2nd editions of <em>Champions </em>being used by that group, reviewing the extensive documentation of <em>Champions </em>play presented in the APA-zine <em>The Clobberin Times'</em>, and giving <em>Toon</em>, <em>Ghostbusters</em>, and <em>James Bond</em> a try. I am not saying "These are Narrativist games," but rather, evidence supports the claim that these rules-sets supported some Narrativist play back then.</p><p></p><p>I've always felt Edwards has a pretty good knowledge of a pretty wide range of RPGs and how they were played. In his <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/20/" target="_blank">"Hard Look at Dungeons & Dragon Essay"[/rul] (also from 2003) he discusses narrativist approaches to early D&D play. In his Story Now essay he recognises plenty of pre-Sorcerer but clearly 90s games that demonstrate narrativist aspirations (eg Over the Edge, 1992) as well as important techniques for supporting narrativist play (eg Maelstrom Storytelling, 1997).</a></p><p><a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/20/" target="_blank"></a></p><p><a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/20/" target="_blank">I'm not sure what you mean when you say "it didn't work". Plenty of people seem to have had useful conversations about how to achieve a certain sort of RPG play - for instance, how to achieve the epic and thematic scope of Dragonlance without the need for GM fudging and railroading - and then gone on to achieve it.</a></p><p><a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/20/" target="_blank"></a></p><p><a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/20/" target="_blank">And in my own case, Gygaxian D&D, and D&D more generally, made a lot more sense after reading Edwards's essays than beforehand. Edwards' discussion of fortune-in-the-middle and other non-process-sim approaches to resolution also helped me work out how 4e was meant to be played (given that I came into 4e after 19 years of GMing Rolemaster, which takes process-sim in resolution absolutely for granted).</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6349921, member: 42582"] *shrug* I'm not here to defend or even anayse Sorcerer, a game I've never played - though from what I know of it I think it includes techniques, such as "kickers", which mean that it is not "just as GM controlled" as a game like Pendragon or CoC. And I personally think the techniques presented in a game like Burning Wheel are clearly different from those in a game like RQ or Pendragon or Ars Magica, as far as distribution of authority, and approach to scene-framing and action resolution, are concerned. This passage is from Edwards' [url=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/narr_essay.html]"Story Now" essay[/url], written in 2003: [indent]Looking at earlier games from a Techniques perspective, a shift to Narrativist play within the larger Gamist context is apparent in some [I]Tunnels & Trolls[/I], as discusssed in "Gamism: Step On Up". I also recommend reading and playing [I]Marvel Super Heroes[/I], reviewing the entire [I]Strike Force[/I] text in light of the 1st and 2nd editions of [I]Champions [/I]being used by that group, reviewing the extensive documentation of [I]Champions [/I]play presented in the APA-zine [I]The Clobberin Times'[/I], and giving [I]Toon[/I], [I]Ghostbusters[/I], and [I]James Bond[/I] a try. I am not saying "These are Narrativist games," but rather, evidence supports the claim that these rules-sets supported some Narrativist play back then.[/indent] I've always felt Edwards has a pretty good knowledge of a pretty wide range of RPGs and how they were played. In his [url=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/20/]"Hard Look at Dungeons & Dragon Essay"[/rul] (also from 2003) he discusses narrativist approaches to early D&D play. In his Story Now essay he recognises plenty of pre-Sorcerer but clearly 90s games that demonstrate narrativist aspirations (eg Over the Edge, 1992) as well as important techniques for supporting narrativist play (eg Maelstrom Storytelling, 1997). I'm not sure what you mean when you say "it didn't work". Plenty of people seem to have had useful conversations about how to achieve a certain sort of RPG play - for instance, how to achieve the epic and thematic scope of Dragonlance without the need for GM fudging and railroading - and then gone on to achieve it. And in my own case, Gygaxian D&D, and D&D more generally, made a lot more sense after reading Edwards's essays than beforehand. Edwards' discussion of fortune-in-the-middle and other non-process-sim approaches to resolution also helped me work out how 4e was meant to be played (given that I came into 4e after 19 years of GMing Rolemaster, which takes process-sim in resolution absolutely for granted).[/url] [/QUOTE]
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