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Wierd Pete's lament in KODT #116 - is it true???
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<blockquote data-quote="teitan" data-source="post: 3034949" data-attributes="member: 3457"><p>I didn't say Wow and other MMORPGs are soley responsible but that the situation was similar to when Magic The Gathering and similar card games damn near killed the industry back in the mid 90s. I see the same rebound occuring now, on a smaller scale though because there isn't a "new" White Wolf to generate interest with new types of products that appeal to a new demographic like Vampire appealed to the goth crowd and spread out into the general populace. </p><p></p><p>Sure there are a lot of differences between P&P and MMORPG, we've gone over them many times in a lot of threads here but are those differences really a factor in someones decision to play WoW WHENEVER and WHEREEVER they want or to play D&D when the other players find it convenient? That is a big factor in some people's decisions. Sure, you don't have the experience of rolling dice together, sharing the same pizza and Dew and throwing cheetos at each other like you do at the table but I don't really think about that stuff when I play WoW myself. I'm also not blaming the MMORPG for the failings on individual home games. Most people I talk to say their RPG nights are about 4 hours long and 20 minutes of gaming...</p><p></p><p>There HAS been a sales linakage in the drop off of RPG sales and WoW, it has been done. Ryan Dancey wrote an article onit that generated quite a bit of discussion a year ago. I think too many people freaked out over it, forgetting the Magic the Gathering lesson from 94-98 though. WoW is a fad in a way. Its not going to go away, its always going to be big but like Magic, many players will eventually filter back to the more fulfilling experience of a table top roleplaying game where their character IS a character. RPGs and comics have BOTH been hurt by the video gaming industry as teens and even many adults have opted to spend their recreation dollar on PCs and consoles over table top gaming. The sales increase in these areas have corresponded with sales losses in tabletop gaming and similar hobbyist ventures like comic books. These things can't last forever though and the hobbyist insudtry will/is bouncing back. </p><p></p><p>You DO realize your rebuttal is an agreement with mine but for some reason you are arguing?</p><p></p><p>The RPG publishers can't be blamed because the product does take a lot of money to produce for minimal profit as Mike pointed out in his comments. Unlike comic books, RPG do not have a secondary market to fall back on like trade paperbacks. The model for roleplaying games is not necessarily THAT bad, its the model that MMORPGs have supported up to WoW and to a lesser extent City of Heroes, releasing a supplement to add on to the core game etc. EVen the prices are comparable to expansions but the difference is that with a MMORPG you know you can't wait til the next expansion and get the previous one for 20 bucks whereas RPGs continue to be produced at the same cost and releasing a paperback edition at a later date is not feasible because a hardcover might NEVER sell out. Sure, they could release a limited hardcover version and then release the paperback but look at how that heped GoO keep afloat... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" /> </p><p></p><p>I think the industry has forgotten that paperbacks are more practical though because of the plethora of hardcovers out there. ALso the idea of core books as loss leaders isn't that good an idea either. When supplements routinely sell LESS copies than the core book and you maintain the hardcover format, higher pricing etc on the later supplements, it hurts. Core products should be released as the money makers and then the supplements produced in line to support the line. I also don't think a set of core books like D&D possesses is a feasible model for the future but a 40 dollar hardcover similar to D20 Modern would be best with 20 dollar support books that expand on that core in softcover format. I'd prefer a 30 dollar hardcover but I know that's not happening when 4e finally comes out.</p><p></p><p>Jason</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="teitan, post: 3034949, member: 3457"] I didn't say Wow and other MMORPGs are soley responsible but that the situation was similar to when Magic The Gathering and similar card games damn near killed the industry back in the mid 90s. I see the same rebound occuring now, on a smaller scale though because there isn't a "new" White Wolf to generate interest with new types of products that appeal to a new demographic like Vampire appealed to the goth crowd and spread out into the general populace. Sure there are a lot of differences between P&P and MMORPG, we've gone over them many times in a lot of threads here but are those differences really a factor in someones decision to play WoW WHENEVER and WHEREEVER they want or to play D&D when the other players find it convenient? That is a big factor in some people's decisions. Sure, you don't have the experience of rolling dice together, sharing the same pizza and Dew and throwing cheetos at each other like you do at the table but I don't really think about that stuff when I play WoW myself. I'm also not blaming the MMORPG for the failings on individual home games. Most people I talk to say their RPG nights are about 4 hours long and 20 minutes of gaming... There HAS been a sales linakage in the drop off of RPG sales and WoW, it has been done. Ryan Dancey wrote an article onit that generated quite a bit of discussion a year ago. I think too many people freaked out over it, forgetting the Magic the Gathering lesson from 94-98 though. WoW is a fad in a way. Its not going to go away, its always going to be big but like Magic, many players will eventually filter back to the more fulfilling experience of a table top roleplaying game where their character IS a character. RPGs and comics have BOTH been hurt by the video gaming industry as teens and even many adults have opted to spend their recreation dollar on PCs and consoles over table top gaming. The sales increase in these areas have corresponded with sales losses in tabletop gaming and similar hobbyist ventures like comic books. These things can't last forever though and the hobbyist insudtry will/is bouncing back. You DO realize your rebuttal is an agreement with mine but for some reason you are arguing? The RPG publishers can't be blamed because the product does take a lot of money to produce for minimal profit as Mike pointed out in his comments. Unlike comic books, RPG do not have a secondary market to fall back on like trade paperbacks. The model for roleplaying games is not necessarily THAT bad, its the model that MMORPGs have supported up to WoW and to a lesser extent City of Heroes, releasing a supplement to add on to the core game etc. EVen the prices are comparable to expansions but the difference is that with a MMORPG you know you can't wait til the next expansion and get the previous one for 20 bucks whereas RPGs continue to be produced at the same cost and releasing a paperback edition at a later date is not feasible because a hardcover might NEVER sell out. Sure, they could release a limited hardcover version and then release the paperback but look at how that heped GoO keep afloat... :confused: I think the industry has forgotten that paperbacks are more practical though because of the plethora of hardcovers out there. ALso the idea of core books as loss leaders isn't that good an idea either. When supplements routinely sell LESS copies than the core book and you maintain the hardcover format, higher pricing etc on the later supplements, it hurts. Core products should be released as the money makers and then the supplements produced in line to support the line. I also don't think a set of core books like D&D possesses is a feasible model for the future but a 40 dollar hardcover similar to D20 Modern would be best with 20 dollar support books that expand on that core in softcover format. I'd prefer a 30 dollar hardcover but I know that's not happening when 4e finally comes out. Jason [/QUOTE]
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