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Will Next be able to do HackMaster?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 5881440" data-attributes="member: 6688937"><p>Nope. </p><p></p><p>The way I see it, 4e skill challenges gave players more latitude in determining <em>how</em> they met their challenges, but not <em>what </em>those challenges were or even what consequences were at stake. Even so, its more the fact that that latitude was explicitly stated and encouraged, rather than it being some shocking new innovation. 3e mentioned that you could swap which ability score was used for skills in original ways, but didn't give instructions as to why/how you might do that (IIRC). Lenient DMs had broad leeway in earlier editions (often due to a lack of rules). </p><p></p><p>In many of those Indie-Narrative games, players can actually state or present challenges/conflicts to the group or even make declarations that can redirect the storyline. One FATE-based game I have has an example where a player uses a FATE point to <u>declare</u> that she recognizes her pursuer as an employee of a long-time enemy. In Universalis, players could invent new races or alter the way magic works or change the geopolitics of the entire gameworld or retroactively create history. In Capes, a player could put down a goal "Cast Fireball" which would prevent anyone from casting Fireball until control of that goal had mechanically resolved. That's just not something that 4e skill challenges can do.</p><p></p><p>The deep end of the Indie-Narrative pool is a long way from any edition of D&D. 4e Skill challenges aren't even dipping 4e's toes in the shallow end. 4e <em>did </em>put a little more "power" into the players hands, but it really doesn't amount to making it a narrative game. The DM still calls the plays, the players just get to pick fancier TD celebrations.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ratskinner, post: 5881440, member: 6688937"] Nope. The way I see it, 4e skill challenges gave players more latitude in determining [I]how[/I] they met their challenges, but not [I]what [/I]those challenges were or even what consequences were at stake. Even so, its more the fact that that latitude was explicitly stated and encouraged, rather than it being some shocking new innovation. 3e mentioned that you could swap which ability score was used for skills in original ways, but didn't give instructions as to why/how you might do that (IIRC). Lenient DMs had broad leeway in earlier editions (often due to a lack of rules). In many of those Indie-Narrative games, players can actually state or present challenges/conflicts to the group or even make declarations that can redirect the storyline. One FATE-based game I have has an example where a player uses a FATE point to [U]declare[/U] that she recognizes her pursuer as an employee of a long-time enemy. In Universalis, players could invent new races or alter the way magic works or change the geopolitics of the entire gameworld or retroactively create history. In Capes, a player could put down a goal "Cast Fireball" which would prevent anyone from casting Fireball until control of that goal had mechanically resolved. That's just not something that 4e skill challenges can do. The deep end of the Indie-Narrative pool is a long way from any edition of D&D. 4e Skill challenges aren't even dipping 4e's toes in the shallow end. 4e [I]did [/I]put a little more "power" into the players hands, but it really doesn't amount to making it a narrative game. The DM still calls the plays, the players just get to pick fancier TD celebrations. [/QUOTE]
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