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<blockquote data-quote="MNblockhead" data-source="post: 8685553" data-attributes="member: 6796661"><p>Yep. That's the conundrum. I mean the player has litterly invested years in a tough campaign to get to this point. We are nearing the end of the campaign. It should be a reward. Just not a cheat code that ruins the sense of award and accomplishments for other players.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, I don't see this as harsh at all. Especially since the PC has sims to act as a kind of lab rat. Also, the PCs have other options that can help them predetermine the likely outcome of certain wishes--assuming they have time to prepare, research, use divination, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We are playing Rappan Atthuk, an old-school inspired mega-dungeon. The campaign is well into its third year. It is rather gonzo and kitchen sink but not slap-stick. At times it is dark and emotional at other times its is comedic. But I would not say we take things particularly seriously. </p><p></p><p>The PC is a LN deep gnome divination wizard. Has survived since session zero. The player is a very experienced gamer who loves playing magic users. I would say he, like most of the players, like to be rewarded for good tactics, preparation, mastery of their powers, etc. They are not min-maxers, as their characters backstories and personalities are important. </p><p></p><p>My concern is not that the campaign will descend into ludicrous antics. It is more the difficulty in providing good end-game challenges that reward creative use of the wish spell and careful wording of the wish. In our game tactical play is important, so simple handwaving and DM fiat for story telling is not satisfactory for any of us--other than when done very sparingly. </p><p></p><p>It is important to note that they will be running up against some very powerful magic users of their own and some powerful extra-planar foes as they get to the end game. There is some room where enemies might have wish, but I am not really interested in running "wish-master" battles. Well, maybe one could be fun. </p><p></p><p>Nope. Not harsh in this campaign. "Misuse" may draw the attention of inevitables, the Hands of Hecate, and while this is getting beyond the known wizard's guilds levels of power, there are certain other important and powerful NPCs that might take notice and have the means to do something about it. Not to mention both powerful NPCs and the masses who could cause complications and inconvenience if they learn you have the ability to make wishes come true.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I like this, but I don't think it would be appropriate in this campagin. Since it take 12 hours to cast a new simulacrum to destroy the prior one, however, I'm not sure this will come up in a specific session. But it it effectively risks never being able to cast simulacrum again in the campaign. Deviating this much from RAW would go against how we've been running the campaign for three years. It doesn't feel like a yes, and... It is more of a nerf by DM fiat. </p><p></p><p>This is something I can see discussing with the player. I might just make it something like the wizard will not be able to cast wish until a new sim is created. That gives a real risk in an encounter and some meaningful choices to make. Still might be too much of a deviation from RAW. But will think on and perhaps suggest it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I like that. That tickles the rules lawyer in me. But the rules lawyer in me also would argue that the sim is a duplicate of the caster. Not of the prior duplicate.</p><p></p><p>This could work with some flavoring. I think that when the wish is of the type that might upset powerful beings, it is not the sim they are punishing, but the wizard. It is hard to know exactly where those boundries are. So there is always a risk to the wizard even when wish is cast by the sim. </p><p></p><p>Nah, I already spoke to the player about this. It is a no go.</p><p></p><p>We have been playing together for years and the group is mature. This really about helping me make interesting and fair rulings while allowing the player to have fun with a new and well-earned power. I'm more concerned with my ability to handle this smoothly in game than I am with causing issues with the player or group.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MNblockhead, post: 8685553, member: 6796661"] Yep. That's the conundrum. I mean the player has litterly invested years in a tough campaign to get to this point. We are nearing the end of the campaign. It should be a reward. Just not a cheat code that ruins the sense of award and accomplishments for other players. Yeah, I don't see this as harsh at all. Especially since the PC has sims to act as a kind of lab rat. Also, the PCs have other options that can help them predetermine the likely outcome of certain wishes--assuming they have time to prepare, research, use divination, etc. We are playing Rappan Atthuk, an old-school inspired mega-dungeon. The campaign is well into its third year. It is rather gonzo and kitchen sink but not slap-stick. At times it is dark and emotional at other times its is comedic. But I would not say we take things particularly seriously. The PC is a LN deep gnome divination wizard. Has survived since session zero. The player is a very experienced gamer who loves playing magic users. I would say he, like most of the players, like to be rewarded for good tactics, preparation, mastery of their powers, etc. They are not min-maxers, as their characters backstories and personalities are important. My concern is not that the campaign will descend into ludicrous antics. It is more the difficulty in providing good end-game challenges that reward creative use of the wish spell and careful wording of the wish. In our game tactical play is important, so simple handwaving and DM fiat for story telling is not satisfactory for any of us--other than when done very sparingly. It is important to note that they will be running up against some very powerful magic users of their own and some powerful extra-planar foes as they get to the end game. There is some room where enemies might have wish, but I am not really interested in running "wish-master" battles. Well, maybe one could be fun. Nope. Not harsh in this campaign. "Misuse" may draw the attention of inevitables, the Hands of Hecate, and while this is getting beyond the known wizard's guilds levels of power, there are certain other important and powerful NPCs that might take notice and have the means to do something about it. Not to mention both powerful NPCs and the masses who could cause complications and inconvenience if they learn you have the ability to make wishes come true. I like this, but I don't think it would be appropriate in this campagin. Since it take 12 hours to cast a new simulacrum to destroy the prior one, however, I'm not sure this will come up in a specific session. But it it effectively risks never being able to cast simulacrum again in the campaign. Deviating this much from RAW would go against how we've been running the campaign for three years. It doesn't feel like a yes, and... It is more of a nerf by DM fiat. This is something I can see discussing with the player. I might just make it something like the wizard will not be able to cast wish until a new sim is created. That gives a real risk in an encounter and some meaningful choices to make. Still might be too much of a deviation from RAW. But will think on and perhaps suggest it. I like that. That tickles the rules lawyer in me. But the rules lawyer in me also would argue that the sim is a duplicate of the caster. Not of the prior duplicate. This could work with some flavoring. I think that when the wish is of the type that might upset powerful beings, it is not the sim they are punishing, but the wizard. It is hard to know exactly where those boundries are. So there is always a risk to the wizard even when wish is cast by the sim. Nah, I already spoke to the player about this. It is a no go. We have been playing together for years and the group is mature. This really about helping me make interesting and fair rulings while allowing the player to have fun with a new and well-earned power. I'm more concerned with my ability to handle this smoothly in game than I am with causing issues with the player or group. [/QUOTE]
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