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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9194638" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Frankly, this seems to be missing the point.</p><p></p><p>Because by this definition, <em>any game that features survival mechanics</em> is "a railroad-y game." Because that's literally one of the most common "nope, we're nixing that 100%, that won't happen to us at all ever" spell problems. It can happen literally from level 1 (<em>goodberry, create or destroy water</em>, and <em>purify food and drink</em> are all 1st-level spells obviating the "can you find food/water" angle), and becomes fully, unequivocally operational at level 5 (<em>create food and water</em> and <em>Leomund's tiny hut</em>, the latter of which is a ritual so it doesn't even cost a spell slot.) With but one Cleric and one Bard or Wizard, you can--by spending no more than two spell slots--completely eliminate an entire swathe of concerns. And not just for the party! You get enough food and water from <em>create food and water</em> to feed fifteen people or five steeds (so, presumably, you could choose to feed, say, six people and three steeds), and while the food only lasts 24 hours, the water is permanent.</p><p></p><p>I still maintain that the core problem is a failure to actually link tasks--meant to be enjoyable challenges to overcome--with the outcomes the game tells you are worth pursuing. Substitute tasks, which are usually much less interesting and rewarding to play through, are thus endured (even if the player or players explicitly recognize that it's less fun to do it that way!) because the substitute tasks are simply better at reaching the desirable outcomes.</p><p></p><p>Those outcomes don't have to come from any specific source. They can be selected purely by the players.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9194638, member: 6790260"] Frankly, this seems to be missing the point. Because by this definition, [I]any game that features survival mechanics[/I] is "a railroad-y game." Because that's literally one of the most common "nope, we're nixing that 100%, that won't happen to us at all ever" spell problems. It can happen literally from level 1 ([I]goodberry, create or destroy water[/I], and [I]purify food and drink[/I] are all 1st-level spells obviating the "can you find food/water" angle), and becomes fully, unequivocally operational at level 5 ([I]create food and water[/I] and [I]Leomund's tiny hut[/I], the latter of which is a ritual so it doesn't even cost a spell slot.) With but one Cleric and one Bard or Wizard, you can--by spending no more than two spell slots--completely eliminate an entire swathe of concerns. And not just for the party! You get enough food and water from [I]create food and water[/I] to feed fifteen people or five steeds (so, presumably, you could choose to feed, say, six people and three steeds), and while the food only lasts 24 hours, the water is permanent. I still maintain that the core problem is a failure to actually link tasks--meant to be enjoyable challenges to overcome--with the outcomes the game tells you are worth pursuing. Substitute tasks, which are usually much less interesting and rewarding to play through, are thus endured (even if the player or players explicitly recognize that it's less fun to do it that way!) because the substitute tasks are simply better at reaching the desirable outcomes. Those outcomes don't have to come from any specific source. They can be selected purely by the players. [/QUOTE]
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