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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5977391" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>The comment about utilities has already been rebutted - within the PHB, off the top off my head, I can point to the Paladin's Diplomacy buff, the Warlock's glibness buff, the Ranger's "help my friends at skill checks" buff and the many invisibility/stealth buffs that Warlocks, Wizards and Rogues get.</p><p></p><p>As for rituals, my group has not found them prohibitively expensive. And if your group won't spend the money for rituals because you're worried about purchasing items, then unless those items are themselves for non-combat use I would say you're making a combat-focused rod for your own backs!</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that this goes to how skill challenges are run.</p><p></p><p>In a recent challenge I ran, the dwarven Fighter-Cleric was having his artefact dwarven thrower, Whelm, reforged as Overwhelm, a mordenkrad. He had the assistance of the party Invoker-Wizard. The dwarf made a Dungeoneering check to make sure that the forge and so on were in order (Dungeoneering and Thievery being the two approximations to an engineering skill in 4e) - not a trained skill. As the magical energy rose, the Invoker-Wizard made an Arcana check to contain those energies - a trained skill. As the dwarven artificers became anxious, the dwarf reassured them - an untrained, 10 CHA Diplomacy check. But they were still having trouble taking hold of Whelm with their tongs. The dwarf prayed to Moradin, but his prayers weren't enough - he failed his trained, 8 INT Religion check. Finally, he decided to use Fighter's Grit (a condition-resisting Fighter utility) and shove his hands into the furnace to hold down Whelm himself long enoug for the artificers to take hold of it. He succeeded at the Hard Endurance check (with +2 for Fighter's Grit), which was also the 4th success for the challenge. The wizard then used Remove Affliction (with Fundamental Ice as part of the material component) to relieve some of the damage to the dwarf's hands.</p><p></p><p>That's just one example, but it's generally consistent with my experience that players will attempt the use of skills in which they are not trained, if that's what the fictional stakes require that they do.</p><p></p><p>Given that D&Dnext will still have PCs with significantly different stat bonuses, it will also need GMs to use techniques to encourage players to make checks other than with their biggest numbers, if it is to avoid the "only the face does any talking" problem.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5977391, member: 42582"] The comment about utilities has already been rebutted - within the PHB, off the top off my head, I can point to the Paladin's Diplomacy buff, the Warlock's glibness buff, the Ranger's "help my friends at skill checks" buff and the many invisibility/stealth buffs that Warlocks, Wizards and Rogues get. As for rituals, my group has not found them prohibitively expensive. And if your group won't spend the money for rituals because you're worried about purchasing items, then unless those items are themselves for non-combat use I would say you're making a combat-focused rod for your own backs! I think that this goes to how skill challenges are run. In a recent challenge I ran, the dwarven Fighter-Cleric was having his artefact dwarven thrower, Whelm, reforged as Overwhelm, a mordenkrad. He had the assistance of the party Invoker-Wizard. The dwarf made a Dungeoneering check to make sure that the forge and so on were in order (Dungeoneering and Thievery being the two approximations to an engineering skill in 4e) - not a trained skill. As the magical energy rose, the Invoker-Wizard made an Arcana check to contain those energies - a trained skill. As the dwarven artificers became anxious, the dwarf reassured them - an untrained, 10 CHA Diplomacy check. But they were still having trouble taking hold of Whelm with their tongs. The dwarf prayed to Moradin, but his prayers weren't enough - he failed his trained, 8 INT Religion check. Finally, he decided to use Fighter's Grit (a condition-resisting Fighter utility) and shove his hands into the furnace to hold down Whelm himself long enoug for the artificers to take hold of it. He succeeded at the Hard Endurance check (with +2 for Fighter's Grit), which was also the 4th success for the challenge. The wizard then used Remove Affliction (with Fundamental Ice as part of the material component) to relieve some of the damage to the dwarf's hands. That's just one example, but it's generally consistent with my experience that players will attempt the use of skills in which they are not trained, if that's what the fictional stakes require that they do. Given that D&Dnext will still have PCs with significantly different stat bonuses, it will also need GMs to use techniques to encourage players to make checks other than with their biggest numbers, if it is to avoid the "only the face does any talking" problem. [/QUOTE]
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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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