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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 5978780" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>The PC has no concept of a check being rolled in the first place. Therefore, the PC has no concept of success or failure with a check. The PC's perspective is that of whatever sensory information the words exchanged (the running narrative) at the table provide him.</p><p></p><p>Let me attempt to illustrate my position with a real-life anecdote. I will use a martial example from my earlier life:</p><p></p><p>- I grew up a baseball player and played through college so I was highly proficient compared to your average person.</p><p>- I typically had good command and good stuff and some nights I had great command and great stuff.</p><p>- One game in particular I can recall where my fastball was crisp, my changeup was dying late and my curveball and slider were darting viciously. I also had command of all four of those pitches and could put them where I wanted. I had shut teams out with far worse stuff and command.</p><p>- I was pitching against an average team which I should have carved up.</p><p>- For whatever reason, the fiction of that game (to map it to DnD) was strangely at odds with a proper process simulation of what should have been the results of that game. I got shelled. I'll never forget it. Totally inexplicable. With the command and stuff that I had, and the ability level of the opponent team, it should have been a walkthrough. I would execute the exact pitch that I wanted, and it would be nasty, and some bum would find a way to get to it and "hit it where they ain't". It totally ruined my immersion that I'm a very good pitcher in my world.</p><p>- The exact opposite tale unfolded for me as well. Poor stuff. Poor command. Above average opponents. Worked my way out of jams. People fouled off mistake pitches they should have squared up. This also ruined my immersion. I had poor stuff and poor command on that day against a good opponent and found a way to get it done.</p><p></p><p>Like PCs would be, I was totally unaware of any "skill checks" being rolled...just the resultant reality (fiction) of executed pitches being hit and poorly executed pitches not being hit...and it certainly wasn't process simulation that would logically follow from a computer model simulation of the inputs going into those 2 games. This anecdote (and I've been involved in or witnessed dozens just like these) and those like them are illustrative that much gets lost in the wash of real life. Entropy emerges where it should not persist...and it finds a way to proliferate. Binary, Linear, Process Simulation does not provide me this level of dynamism and it certainly doesn't provide me the dynamism of Indiana Jones or Star Wars.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 5978780, member: 6696971"] The PC has no concept of a check being rolled in the first place. Therefore, the PC has no concept of success or failure with a check. The PC's perspective is that of whatever sensory information the words exchanged (the running narrative) at the table provide him. Let me attempt to illustrate my position with a real-life anecdote. I will use a martial example from my earlier life: - I grew up a baseball player and played through college so I was highly proficient compared to your average person. - I typically had good command and good stuff and some nights I had great command and great stuff. - One game in particular I can recall where my fastball was crisp, my changeup was dying late and my curveball and slider were darting viciously. I also had command of all four of those pitches and could put them where I wanted. I had shut teams out with far worse stuff and command. - I was pitching against an average team which I should have carved up. - For whatever reason, the fiction of that game (to map it to DnD) was strangely at odds with a proper process simulation of what should have been the results of that game. I got shelled. I'll never forget it. Totally inexplicable. With the command and stuff that I had, and the ability level of the opponent team, it should have been a walkthrough. I would execute the exact pitch that I wanted, and it would be nasty, and some bum would find a way to get to it and "hit it where they ain't". It totally ruined my immersion that I'm a very good pitcher in my world. - The exact opposite tale unfolded for me as well. Poor stuff. Poor command. Above average opponents. Worked my way out of jams. People fouled off mistake pitches they should have squared up. This also ruined my immersion. I had poor stuff and poor command on that day against a good opponent and found a way to get it done. Like PCs would be, I was totally unaware of any "skill checks" being rolled...just the resultant reality (fiction) of executed pitches being hit and poorly executed pitches not being hit...and it certainly wasn't process simulation that would logically follow from a computer model simulation of the inputs going into those 2 games. This anecdote (and I've been involved in or witnessed dozens just like these) and those like them are illustrative that much gets lost in the wash of real life. Entropy emerges where it should not persist...and it finds a way to proliferate. Binary, Linear, Process Simulation does not provide me this level of dynamism and it certainly doesn't provide me the dynamism of Indiana Jones or Star Wars. [/QUOTE]
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