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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5979521" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>To me, what you are saying here goes back to the PC vs player distinction, plus the issue of design.</p><p></p><p>The PC does not call for a check of some particular skill. Nor does the PC deploy his/her talents in some silo-ed fashion. The PC brings everything that s/he has to bear on the situation - her skill as a rider, her prior expertise in stabling and caring for his/her animal, balance, knowledge of the local terrain, etc.</p><p></p><p>It is only the action resolution mechanics - which are part of the metagame, at the table, not part of the fiction - which oblige one particular skill to be checked. At which point, the question of how the PC's other areas of expertise pertain, many of which are also relevant to his/her success in the current endeavour, arises.</p><p></p><p>Broadly defined and overlapping skills are one way to address the issue. But then the original objection - that I am improving narrow skill A while being thwarted in domain B - doesn't arise (see 4e's Nature skill).</p><p></p><p>A proper system of augments (see BW or HW/Q, or - not quite as good, but ameliorated by broad skills - 4e) is another way to address the issue. But then part of playing the game well (including immersing in one's PC) is bringing the proper augments to bear.</p><p></p><p>You talk about a skill system in which skills are narrowly defined and yet deploying augments "is not feasible". For me, that is a sign simply of a poorly-designed skill and action resolution system, which produces silly fiction (in which, for example, I can never benefit at one and the same time from being <em>both</em> a skilled rider and a shrewd local guide).</p><p></p><p>Hence, if someone is saying all 3 of the following things:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">*I want narrow rather than broad skillls;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*I don't want a system of augments for complementary/overlapping/etc skills;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*It jars my immersion when failure on a check arises in some domain that might pertain to a different narrow skills</p><p></p><p>then my sympathy is limited - I'm prepared to believe that their immersion is jarred (presumably they know best) but I'm not very interested in generalising the conclusion.</p><p></p><p>Because whatever world they've immersed themselves into, it bears little relation to the world I inhabit, and to the world I imagine for my RPGs. In my imagined worlds, silo-ing of endeavours along narrow lines reflecting some designer's conception of a detailed yet augment-free skill system is not part of the experience. In that respect, at least, my imagined worlds resemble the real world.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5979521, member: 42582"] To me, what you are saying here goes back to the PC vs player distinction, plus the issue of design. The PC does not call for a check of some particular skill. Nor does the PC deploy his/her talents in some silo-ed fashion. The PC brings everything that s/he has to bear on the situation - her skill as a rider, her prior expertise in stabling and caring for his/her animal, balance, knowledge of the local terrain, etc. It is only the action resolution mechanics - which are part of the metagame, at the table, not part of the fiction - which oblige one particular skill to be checked. At which point, the question of how the PC's other areas of expertise pertain, many of which are also relevant to his/her success in the current endeavour, arises. Broadly defined and overlapping skills are one way to address the issue. But then the original objection - that I am improving narrow skill A while being thwarted in domain B - doesn't arise (see 4e's Nature skill). A proper system of augments (see BW or HW/Q, or - not quite as good, but ameliorated by broad skills - 4e) is another way to address the issue. But then part of playing the game well (including immersing in one's PC) is bringing the proper augments to bear. You talk about a skill system in which skills are narrowly defined and yet deploying augments "is not feasible". For me, that is a sign simply of a poorly-designed skill and action resolution system, which produces silly fiction (in which, for example, I can never benefit at one and the same time from being [I]both[/I] a skilled rider and a shrewd local guide). Hence, if someone is saying all 3 of the following things: [indent]*I want narrow rather than broad skillls; *I don't want a system of augments for complementary/overlapping/etc skills; *It jars my immersion when failure on a check arises in some domain that might pertain to a different narrow skills[/indent] then my sympathy is limited - I'm prepared to believe that their immersion is jarred (presumably they know best) but I'm not very interested in generalising the conclusion. Because whatever world they've immersed themselves into, it bears little relation to the world I inhabit, and to the world I imagine for my RPGs. In my imagined worlds, silo-ing of endeavours along narrow lines reflecting some designer's conception of a detailed yet augment-free skill system is not part of the experience. In that respect, at least, my imagined worlds resemble the real world. [/QUOTE]
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