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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5979687" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>But the gorge is just the stone writ slightly larger. As I said upthread, even agrees that "Rocks fall. Everybody dies!" is no good. But between that and strict process simulation there is a lot of ground, whether it is the gorge, the rock, a gust of wind affecting some flying or jumping manouevre (Does the PC suddenly decide to improve Weather Watching? - and if so, does the GM properly figure the Weather Watching skill into action resolution?), etc.</p><p></p><p>I tried that one upthread. As best I can tell, the response was "Because at the table it is being resolved as a Ride check, in the fiction the PC is thinking of it as pertaining only to those elements of riding proficiency (whatever they might be) that don't overlap with other skills/stats/etc.</p><p></p><p>I mentioned that upthread too! And also menteiond that, in my view, discussing this abstracted from questions like "How granular is the skill system?" and "How do augments work?" is pointless. But got little response.</p><p></p><p>And, as I pointed out upthread, raises the question of how a PC's animal handling/blacksmithing/stabling/grooming skill figures into action resolution.</p><p></p><p>Which is why I think these objections to the gorge example are in fact just highlighting the problems that arise in a skill system with tightly silo-ed skills and no proper mechanic for augments. Whereas every skill challenge-like system that I'm aware of avoids one or both of these problems (BW: tight skills, generous and far-reaching augment rules; HW/Q: mix of tight and broad skills, generous augment rules; 4e: broad skills, reasonable augment rules via secondary checks in a skill challenge). Hence I think the so-called issue is a non-issue for any of the actual RPG systems in which it might actually arise.</p><p></p><p>(But if someone runs a hypothetical 3E game with narrow skills, skill challenges and no augments, then I agree they could have the problem. Is anyone actually doing this, though?)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5979687, member: 42582"] But the gorge is just the stone writ slightly larger. As I said upthread, even agrees that "Rocks fall. Everybody dies!" is no good. But between that and strict process simulation there is a lot of ground, whether it is the gorge, the rock, a gust of wind affecting some flying or jumping manouevre (Does the PC suddenly decide to improve Weather Watching? - and if so, does the GM properly figure the Weather Watching skill into action resolution?), etc. I tried that one upthread. As best I can tell, the response was "Because at the table it is being resolved as a Ride check, in the fiction the PC is thinking of it as pertaining only to those elements of riding proficiency (whatever they might be) that don't overlap with other skills/stats/etc. I mentioned that upthread too! And also menteiond that, in my view, discussing this abstracted from questions like "How granular is the skill system?" and "How do augments work?" is pointless. But got little response. And, as I pointed out upthread, raises the question of how a PC's animal handling/blacksmithing/stabling/grooming skill figures into action resolution. Which is why I think these objections to the gorge example are in fact just highlighting the problems that arise in a skill system with tightly silo-ed skills and no proper mechanic for augments. Whereas every skill challenge-like system that I'm aware of avoids one or both of these problems (BW: tight skills, generous and far-reaching augment rules; HW/Q: mix of tight and broad skills, generous augment rules; 4e: broad skills, reasonable augment rules via secondary checks in a skill challenge). Hence I think the so-called issue is a non-issue for any of the actual RPG systems in which it might actually arise. (But if someone runs a hypothetical 3E game with narrow skills, skill challenges and no augments, then I agree they could have the problem. Is anyone actually doing this, though?) [/QUOTE]
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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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