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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 5980098" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>Nope I readily admit their oppinions and I try to stay away from definitive language...</p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Sure it does... you've defined why my character failed and how he failed... I didn't.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>I agree...</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>I disagre...</p><p> </p><p>Do you think you have a better grasp on a players character then they do? As a comic book example... the way Gambit fails and responds to said failure is different from the way Wolverine fails and responds to his failures. This is a part of their characterization... why do you as DM get to define that for the players characters?</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>For a couple of reasons... but mainly because it either pre-supposes you as DM know more about the character than the player does... or it takes away player agency. I mean I've given reasons I think players should get to narrate their failures (though I'll admit we have agreed that on a roll of a natural 1 the DM gets to dictate what happens in the event of a failure) but you haven't give a single reason why they shouldn't... how about we start there?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Who said my failure was caused by the environment? You're forcing that fiction/narrative/whatever on my character when he or she fails... but just as easily as it could have been the environment... it could have been my characters lack of faith, skill, confidence, attention, overconfidence, arrogance, rage, etc. that caused his failure. Why do you get to decide that it was the environment?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>No you're just stating the DM gets narrative control over when and where a player gets the chance to express that aspect of their character... I'm sorry I must have missed it... why don't you allow players to narrate the result of their own failures?? Manbearcat allows it, I allow it in my games as well... so I'm just wondering why is it you don't allow characters to do that? You keep stating you don't but I've given reasons why I do... so I'd be interested in hearing yours</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>EDIT: I'm curious... who narrates when your NPC's or monsters fail, do the players?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 5980098, member: 48965"] Nope I readily admit their oppinions and I try to stay away from definitive language... Sure it does... you've defined why my character failed and how he failed... I didn't. I agree... I disagre... Do you think you have a better grasp on a players character then they do? As a comic book example... the way Gambit fails and responds to said failure is different from the way Wolverine fails and responds to his failures. This is a part of their characterization... why do you as DM get to define that for the players characters? For a couple of reasons... but mainly because it either pre-supposes you as DM know more about the character than the player does... or it takes away player agency. I mean I've given reasons I think players should get to narrate their failures (though I'll admit we have agreed that on a roll of a natural 1 the DM gets to dictate what happens in the event of a failure) but you haven't give a single reason why they shouldn't... how about we start there? Who said my failure was caused by the environment? You're forcing that fiction/narrative/whatever on my character when he or she fails... but just as easily as it could have been the environment... it could have been my characters lack of faith, skill, confidence, attention, overconfidence, arrogance, rage, etc. that caused his failure. Why do you get to decide that it was the environment? No you're just stating the DM gets narrative control over when and where a player gets the chance to express that aspect of their character... I'm sorry I must have missed it... why don't you allow players to narrate the result of their own failures?? Manbearcat allows it, I allow it in my games as well... so I'm just wondering why is it you don't allow characters to do that? You keep stating you don't but I've given reasons why I do... so I'd be interested in hearing yours EDIT: I'm curious... who narrates when your NPC's or monsters fail, do the players? [/QUOTE]
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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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