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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 5980273" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>The concept of player agency seems to be roughly pinned down and runs along two divergent (but not mutually exclusive) strains of thought:</p><p></p><p>1) The world needs to precisely match up to my expectations of coupled cause and effect from a simulation standpoint. If I bring specific resources to bear toward a specific end, I suspect a specific, narrow outcome to arise out of this derivation. This keeps me immersed from actor stance and properly plays out the formula of my archetype/growth through reinforcement of my expectation of the physical model's fidelity toward the simulation.</p><p></p><p>2) I have an archetype that I have composed through character build, mechanical resource deployment and through narrative explication. I expect to be able to enter author stance to pro-actively impose upon the fiction my expectations of my composed archetype with fidelity toward the model of heroic fantasy (ie LotR or Game of Thrones) that the table has accepted, replete with genre logic and trope conventions. I expect the DM to weave varying points of narrative conflict that forces me to react in actor stance while following those same constraints (genre logic and trope conventions) with fidelity toward the model of heroic fantasy that the table has accepted. This ensures the best possibility of an interesting, varying narrative whereby a dynamic story unfolds that is genre relevant and empowers me to play out the archetype I envision in my head.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think what might be productive in this discussion is if folks break down their understanding/expectations of the micro-processes that underpin a singular skill check; both under normal circumstances and under duress. What acumen, from a physical standpoint and a formal training standpoint, is a character bringing to bear (and in what percentages of relevance) when they are:</p><p></p><p>A) On horseback at full gallop (riding? dexterity? strength?)</p><p>B) Fleeing deadly, overwhelming pursuit with precious cargo in tow and much depending upon your mission (cool? charisma?)</p><p>C) Trying to keep an eye out for treacherous terrain (nature? perception? wisdom?)</p><p>D) Trying to notice a fleeting, trail marker that indicates the pass to a lone landbridge that spans a gaping gorge (perception? knowledge local geography? wisdom? intelligence?)</p><p>E) Trying to maintain your presence of mind, spatial awareness, and multi-task your sensory faculties to perform all of these disparate but symbiotic (in this case) acts simultaneously (concentration? constitution?)</p><p></p><p></p><p>It would then probably be productive for the discussion if folks break down their understanding of and usage/application of genre/trope logic (how and why?) and genre/trope conventions (what?) within the confines of their table. Using the evasion of pursuit while on horseback to focus conversation (and not include further variables) might be a good idea.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Then we can see where this gets us when we marry the three.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 5980273, member: 6696971"] The concept of player agency seems to be roughly pinned down and runs along two divergent (but not mutually exclusive) strains of thought: 1) The world needs to precisely match up to my expectations of coupled cause and effect from a simulation standpoint. If I bring specific resources to bear toward a specific end, I suspect a specific, narrow outcome to arise out of this derivation. This keeps me immersed from actor stance and properly plays out the formula of my archetype/growth through reinforcement of my expectation of the physical model's fidelity toward the simulation. 2) I have an archetype that I have composed through character build, mechanical resource deployment and through narrative explication. I expect to be able to enter author stance to pro-actively impose upon the fiction my expectations of my composed archetype with fidelity toward the model of heroic fantasy (ie LotR or Game of Thrones) that the table has accepted, replete with genre logic and trope conventions. I expect the DM to weave varying points of narrative conflict that forces me to react in actor stance while following those same constraints (genre logic and trope conventions) with fidelity toward the model of heroic fantasy that the table has accepted. This ensures the best possibility of an interesting, varying narrative whereby a dynamic story unfolds that is genre relevant and empowers me to play out the archetype I envision in my head. I think what might be productive in this discussion is if folks break down their understanding/expectations of the micro-processes that underpin a singular skill check; both under normal circumstances and under duress. What acumen, from a physical standpoint and a formal training standpoint, is a character bringing to bear (and in what percentages of relevance) when they are: A) On horseback at full gallop (riding? dexterity? strength?) B) Fleeing deadly, overwhelming pursuit with precious cargo in tow and much depending upon your mission (cool? charisma?) C) Trying to keep an eye out for treacherous terrain (nature? perception? wisdom?) D) Trying to notice a fleeting, trail marker that indicates the pass to a lone landbridge that spans a gaping gorge (perception? knowledge local geography? wisdom? intelligence?) E) Trying to maintain your presence of mind, spatial awareness, and multi-task your sensory faculties to perform all of these disparate but symbiotic (in this case) acts simultaneously (concentration? constitution?) It would then probably be productive for the discussion if folks break down their understanding of and usage/application of genre/trope logic (how and why?) and genre/trope conventions (what?) within the confines of their table. Using the evasion of pursuit while on horseback to focus conversation (and not include further variables) might be a good idea. Then we can see where this gets us when we marry the three. [/QUOTE]
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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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