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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Nagol" data-source="post: 5980447" data-attributes="member: 23935"><p>It's against my better judgement, but I'll respond.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The lameness came about because the rider failed to understand the limitations of his mount. A good rider doesn'tr injure his horse. A horse can be forced into injury.</p><p></p><p>The brush and/or switchback or other geography come from already present revealed details of the world. There will be some since I do not have the characters generally on a featureless white plain of nothingness nor do I beleive do you. If that belief is mistaken then I can understand the confusion. I extropolated those two terrain features for the example because they fit with the general concept of a tarrin that could support a gorge and I assume the gorge was a plausible addition. I can withdraw that assumption and use instead cobblestone, loose gravel, deep sand, trees (of a variety of type), and/or water both running and still, but I figured two small example terrains made the point.</p><p></p><p>The terrain feature that causes the jump would also be one that fit with the appropriate terrain for the chase -- fallen log, bush, rock, giant amphibious tree sloth, whetever.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I see them as interestingly different -- the outcome affects the situation in different ways and sets up the PC to make different choices for the next check. A lame horse cannot be pushed as hard -- Ride takes a -2 penalty for the rest of the scene. The brush offers concelment and affords a possibly stealth escape. Leaving the path can afford a place to hide and let the pursuers pass the PC and give the PC an opportunity to return the way he came or it can afford a spot where only a desperate man would try to ride -- difficult Ride check to get down without damage, but the pursuers won't follow.</p><p></p><p>It's not about degree for me. As I said upthread, it's about maintaining a consistency between PC and player interests and expectations. I also agree with Imaro of the DM using and reflecting the choice the player brings to the table.</p><p></p><p>I disagree with LostSoul about introducing a gorge to protect the PC's integrity in the fiction. If the integrity would be hurt by a failure <em>don't roll the dice</em> -- have the Ride be an auto-success/auto-tie. Alternatively, introduce an element before the player choice to explain the possibility of failure or introduce an element afterwards that explains why despite the PC's Herculean effort, the pursuers were able to close -- their horses being unnatural beasts under <em>Seeming</em>, a magical effect is used, or a cunning trap the rider didn't manage to avoid was laid in advance. </p><p></p><p>Why are those secondary elements OK and the gorge is not? Because these elements directly address why the Ride failed even though the rider is too good to fail without introducing elements outside the Ride ability. The attributes and plans of the pursuers are further outside the control and assumed knowledge of the PC than the land he is riding across. If that's not the case then I wouldn't use these elements either.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nagol, post: 5980447, member: 23935"] It's against my better judgement, but I'll respond. The lameness came about because the rider failed to understand the limitations of his mount. A good rider doesn'tr injure his horse. A horse can be forced into injury. The brush and/or switchback or other geography come from already present revealed details of the world. There will be some since I do not have the characters generally on a featureless white plain of nothingness nor do I beleive do you. If that belief is mistaken then I can understand the confusion. I extropolated those two terrain features for the example because they fit with the general concept of a tarrin that could support a gorge and I assume the gorge was a plausible addition. I can withdraw that assumption and use instead cobblestone, loose gravel, deep sand, trees (of a variety of type), and/or water both running and still, but I figured two small example terrains made the point. The terrain feature that causes the jump would also be one that fit with the appropriate terrain for the chase -- fallen log, bush, rock, giant amphibious tree sloth, whetever. I see them as interestingly different -- the outcome affects the situation in different ways and sets up the PC to make different choices for the next check. A lame horse cannot be pushed as hard -- Ride takes a -2 penalty for the rest of the scene. The brush offers concelment and affords a possibly stealth escape. Leaving the path can afford a place to hide and let the pursuers pass the PC and give the PC an opportunity to return the way he came or it can afford a spot where only a desperate man would try to ride -- difficult Ride check to get down without damage, but the pursuers won't follow. It's not about degree for me. As I said upthread, it's about maintaining a consistency between PC and player interests and expectations. I also agree with Imaro of the DM using and reflecting the choice the player brings to the table. I disagree with LostSoul about introducing a gorge to protect the PC's integrity in the fiction. If the integrity would be hurt by a failure [I]don't roll the dice[/I] -- have the Ride be an auto-success/auto-tie. Alternatively, introduce an element before the player choice to explain the possibility of failure or introduce an element afterwards that explains why despite the PC's Herculean effort, the pursuers were able to close -- their horses being unnatural beasts under [I]Seeming[/I], a magical effect is used, or a cunning trap the rider didn't manage to avoid was laid in advance. Why are those secondary elements OK and the gorge is not? Because these elements directly address why the Ride failed even though the rider is too good to fail without introducing elements outside the Ride ability. The attributes and plans of the pursuers are further outside the control and assumed knowledge of the PC than the land he is riding across. If that's not the case then I wouldn't use these elements either. [/QUOTE]
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