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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 5986661" data-attributes="member: 710"><p>But D&D wasn't a rotten game till 2008. It was a game with perks and flaws, stuff I liked and stuff I disliked. I enjoyed playing it, but I saw mistakes that needed fixing. 4E fixed many of those mistakes. So it was for me quite a logical conclusion of the game. When I lock back even further, I tend to think "Well, they didn't know how to do it better back then, but they had the heart in the right place".*</p><p></p><p></p><p>Pre D&D also had to face with "rivaling" game systems, be it something like Call of Cthulhu, Storyteller, Rolemaster or Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Games. And lots of the people playing those games used to be D&D players as well. </p><p></p><p>I tend to believe that each edition of D&D will make its own mark and have its own unique situations. 3E came out after a long-lasting edition, and it introduced the concept of the Open Gaming License. This had never happened before. What you may be missing is not just that Pathfinder was succesful, but that there was also a large, new movement of OSR games. That to me suggests that 3E did not really appeal to everyone either, since the OSR games depart from 3E in many ways. Paizo had the key advantage of being already very popular thanks to their handling of the Dragon magazines, the OSR community is probably a bit more split between alternate options since there was no single, popular leader. </p><p></p><p>4E came after this, and as such, it was one choice of several - maybe a more "likely" choice, since it carried the brand, but there was still much more D&D options then there were to the times of 3E.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">*) If that seems condenscending - I believe I may have sometimes underestimated Gygax & co, but I still believe that they still created flawed games. The idea of balance over levels, e.g. a low level caster is weaker than a low level non-caster, but the relationship reverses at higher levels, was a notion of balance they had. It probably just needed to be done to see that it was not really a good way for many players. Only once we've seen it in action we could really see the advantages and drawbacks.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 5986661, member: 710"] But D&D wasn't a rotten game till 2008. It was a game with perks and flaws, stuff I liked and stuff I disliked. I enjoyed playing it, but I saw mistakes that needed fixing. 4E fixed many of those mistakes. So it was for me quite a logical conclusion of the game. When I lock back even further, I tend to think "Well, they didn't know how to do it better back then, but they had the heart in the right place".* Pre D&D also had to face with "rivaling" game systems, be it something like Call of Cthulhu, Storyteller, Rolemaster or Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Games. And lots of the people playing those games used to be D&D players as well. I tend to believe that each edition of D&D will make its own mark and have its own unique situations. 3E came out after a long-lasting edition, and it introduced the concept of the Open Gaming License. This had never happened before. What you may be missing is not just that Pathfinder was succesful, but that there was also a large, new movement of OSR games. That to me suggests that 3E did not really appeal to everyone either, since the OSR games depart from 3E in many ways. Paizo had the key advantage of being already very popular thanks to their handling of the Dragon magazines, the OSR community is probably a bit more split between alternate options since there was no single, popular leader. 4E came after this, and as such, it was one choice of several - maybe a more "likely" choice, since it carried the brand, but there was still much more D&D options then there were to the times of 3E. [SIZE=1]*) If that seems condenscending - I believe I may have sometimes underestimated Gygax & co, but I still believe that they still created flawed games. The idea of balance over levels, e.g. a low level caster is weaker than a low level non-caster, but the relationship reverses at higher levels, was a notion of balance they had. It probably just needed to be done to see that it was not really a good way for many players. Only once we've seen it in action we could really see the advantages and drawbacks.[/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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