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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="LostSoul" data-source="post: 5986703" data-attributes="member: 386"><p>I'm not sure that's true.</p><p></p><p>Let's say I want to shoot a guy in the leg in order to slow him down. I think the only way to do that in 3E is to have the Hamstring feat and sacrifice some Sneak Attack damage to reduce his movement rate. The PC should be able to make that decision, but as a player I cannot.</p><p></p><p>So the player - character decision equivalence is disrupted.</p><p></p><p>Maybe I want to trip a guy with my longsword by hooking his leg with my quillons. A longsword is not a trip weapon so that's not possible. </p><p></p><p>So there is no connection between the trip rules and the game world, at least in this instance. (How about a ranged trip with a chair into his feet?)</p><p></p><p>Even if it were, are there not some situations where a failed trip attempt may not result in getting tripped on your own, without having the Improved Trip feat?</p><p></p><p>Once again, player - character decision equivalence is disrupted.</p><p></p><p>Even a simple melee attack doesn't have any more connection to the game world than a 4E power. You can't choose, as a player, what your character does until the die is cast; only after you read the die can you determine what your character did. Your choice is "make a melee attack", not "stab him in the foot".</p><p></p><p>Then there's the "stop-motion" initiative system of 3E that means you can't make decisions until everyone else has taken their full allotment of 6-second actions, at which point you can decide what you're doing for 6 seconds without much interference from others.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure how the player and the character are making equivalent decisions.</p><p></p><p>I've seen this disconnect many times in play, especially from new players who are approaching the game as if they were making their decisions as their character.</p><p></p><p>I could have a horrible misunderstanding of what dissociated mechanics mean, though, so I'm open to discussion on these points.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="LostSoul, post: 5986703, member: 386"] I'm not sure that's true. Let's say I want to shoot a guy in the leg in order to slow him down. I think the only way to do that in 3E is to have the Hamstring feat and sacrifice some Sneak Attack damage to reduce his movement rate. The PC should be able to make that decision, but as a player I cannot. So the player - character decision equivalence is disrupted. Maybe I want to trip a guy with my longsword by hooking his leg with my quillons. A longsword is not a trip weapon so that's not possible. So there is no connection between the trip rules and the game world, at least in this instance. (How about a ranged trip with a chair into his feet?) Even if it were, are there not some situations where a failed trip attempt may not result in getting tripped on your own, without having the Improved Trip feat? Once again, player - character decision equivalence is disrupted. Even a simple melee attack doesn't have any more connection to the game world than a 4E power. You can't choose, as a player, what your character does until the die is cast; only after you read the die can you determine what your character did. Your choice is "make a melee attack", not "stab him in the foot". Then there's the "stop-motion" initiative system of 3E that means you can't make decisions until everyone else has taken their full allotment of 6-second actions, at which point you can decide what you're doing for 6 seconds without much interference from others. I'm not sure how the player and the character are making equivalent decisions. I've seen this disconnect many times in play, especially from new players who are approaching the game as if they were making their decisions as their character. I could have a horrible misunderstanding of what dissociated mechanics mean, though, so I'm open to discussion on these points. [/QUOTE]
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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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