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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5989362" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>Well, in <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/5986319-post352.html" target="_blank">Hussar's post</a>, he does indicate that it goes against the character's POV ("Now, this is, from the character's POV, ridiculous"). And, he prefaces that with "Many of the things that a character <u>might try</u> make virtually no sense from the character's point of view", so he's accounted for it not being all-encompassing. You're right, there.</p><p></p><p>Of course, they're saying "things can be at odds between character and player" and other people are saying "they don't need to be." So... okay? They're right in that they <em>can</em> be at odds. Sure. I'm not sure what that proves, exactly. If you're trying to clarify their point, can you do so? Because when people are saying "they don't need to be", they're still being met with resistance. As always, play what you like <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure if something got caught off here (mostly because adventurers what?). I definitely think comfort zone applies. Even people in dangerous situations with do dangerous things because they're more comfortable doing it. I have a close friend (I was the best man at his wedding) who confirms this from the time he spent in Iraq.</p><p></p><p>This is just stating a preference of what a "good system" is, obviously. But, it's like Craft or Perform (non-Bard) in 3.X; a lot of people thought those skills were worth a lot less than other skills, while still others valued them more (yes, more). It's just a matter of what you value in the game (and to some people, that's being a good performer).</p><p></p><p>I have no objection to this type of design.</p><p></p><p>The reward is for the character concept (including personality) matching what you want. That is, your character is mechanically expressed in a way that matches what you want (a Wizard with fire spells), and that makes you happy. The bonus damage is gravy, but it's secondary to having your character be expressed the way you want them to. Mind you, gravy is good, so it's why I have no objection. But, again, the reward for themed characters is that the player gets what he wants, whether it's optimized or not.</p><p></p><p>My comment was on making a character who had a mindset that was different from "most optimized [or pragmatic] actions are the best." And I think that's how the majority of humans behave on many issues. Certain issues (like getting out of work <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />), people can be pretty efficient in. In a lot of other activities, that's not how it works, though.</p><p></p><p>Then again, I also get my thought-wires crossed when I start to move beyond "adventurer" or "heroic fantasy" and other people don't. I wouldn't consider most characters in <em>Song of Ice and Fire</em> adventurers or involved in heroic fantasy, but I'd like to make characters with similar motivations (or capabilities). But, while related, that's probably an entirely different discussion. As always, play what you like <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 5989362, member: 6668292"] Well, in [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/5986319-post352.html]Hussar's post[/url], he does indicate that it goes against the character's POV ("Now, this is, from the character's POV, ridiculous"). And, he prefaces that with "Many of the things that a character [U]might try[/U] make virtually no sense from the character's point of view", so he's accounted for it not being all-encompassing. You're right, there. Of course, they're saying "things can be at odds between character and player" and other people are saying "they don't need to be." So... okay? They're right in that they [I]can[/I] be at odds. Sure. I'm not sure what that proves, exactly. If you're trying to clarify their point, can you do so? Because when people are saying "they don't need to be", they're still being met with resistance. As always, play what you like :) I'm not sure if something got caught off here (mostly because adventurers what?). I definitely think comfort zone applies. Even people in dangerous situations with do dangerous things because they're more comfortable doing it. I have a close friend (I was the best man at his wedding) who confirms this from the time he spent in Iraq. This is just stating a preference of what a "good system" is, obviously. But, it's like Craft or Perform (non-Bard) in 3.X; a lot of people thought those skills were worth a lot less than other skills, while still others valued them more (yes, more). It's just a matter of what you value in the game (and to some people, that's being a good performer). I have no objection to this type of design. The reward is for the character concept (including personality) matching what you want. That is, your character is mechanically expressed in a way that matches what you want (a Wizard with fire spells), and that makes you happy. The bonus damage is gravy, but it's secondary to having your character be expressed the way you want them to. Mind you, gravy is good, so it's why I have no objection. But, again, the reward for themed characters is that the player gets what he wants, whether it's optimized or not. My comment was on making a character who had a mindset that was different from "most optimized [or pragmatic] actions are the best." And I think that's how the majority of humans behave on many issues. Certain issues (like getting out of work :)), people can be pretty efficient in. In a lot of other activities, that's not how it works, though. Then again, I also get my thought-wires crossed when I start to move beyond "adventurer" or "heroic fantasy" and other people don't. I wouldn't consider most characters in [I]Song of Ice and Fire[/I] adventurers or involved in heroic fantasy, but I'd like to make characters with similar motivations (or capabilities). But, while related, that's probably an entirely different discussion. As always, play what you like :) [/QUOTE]
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