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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5989716" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Sure. But that's going to get objections from the "dissociated" crowd, I think. Especially i fyou want to ignore the "psionic" keyword on your powers and pretend they're martial!</p><p></p><p>For clarity: I'm not disagreeing at all - a Jackie Chan lucky monk could be a fun PC, especialy at Heroic. (I'm not sure it fits the tone of paragon and epic so well.)</p><p></p><p>I think the point of my comment was to try to indicate that this anti-"dissociation" thing is a very strict constraint on PC building and PC characterisation. It's <em>much stricter</em> than just confining people to actor stance: as [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] has often pointed out, you can achieve that just by not choosing CaGI at 7th level. A requirement that every mechanical operation and element correlate to some incharacter decision is hugely strong, and rules out hit points (other than as meat), initiative and turn-by-turn action sequences (unless you envisage the gameworld as a stop motion one). And also AD&D-style saving throws, which in some cases are more like "luck rolls" than evasion rolls.</p><p></p><p>As far as I can tell, yes, that is the issue. It's not about stance - because you don't need to leave actor stance to think "Now's the time I'd really like to strike a killer blow!". It's about metagame mechanics that (i) permit the player to determine outcomes within the gameworld without directly modelling the ingame causal process that produces that outcome, <em>and</em> (ii) that do not correspond to any decision taken by the PC. (Number (i) on its own is too strong, because it would rule out "crit on a natural 20", which doesn't really model any ingame causal process either. Number (ii) is, I think, where the threat to immersion is seen to lie.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5989716, member: 42582"] Sure. But that's going to get objections from the "dissociated" crowd, I think. Especially i fyou want to ignore the "psionic" keyword on your powers and pretend they're martial! For clarity: I'm not disagreeing at all - a Jackie Chan lucky monk could be a fun PC, especialy at Heroic. (I'm not sure it fits the tone of paragon and epic so well.) I think the point of my comment was to try to indicate that this anti-"dissociation" thing is a very strict constraint on PC building and PC characterisation. It's [I]much stricter[/I] than just confining people to actor stance: as [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] has often pointed out, you can achieve that just by not choosing CaGI at 7th level. A requirement that every mechanical operation and element correlate to some incharacter decision is hugely strong, and rules out hit points (other than as meat), initiative and turn-by-turn action sequences (unless you envisage the gameworld as a stop motion one). And also AD&D-style saving throws, which in some cases are more like "luck rolls" than evasion rolls. As far as I can tell, yes, that is the issue. It's not about stance - because you don't need to leave actor stance to think "Now's the time I'd really like to strike a killer blow!". It's about metagame mechanics that (i) permit the player to determine outcomes within the gameworld without directly modelling the ingame causal process that produces that outcome, [I]and[/I] (ii) that do not correspond to any decision taken by the PC. (Number (i) on its own is too strong, because it would rule out "crit on a natural 20", which doesn't really model any ingame causal process either. Number (ii) is, I think, where the threat to immersion is seen to lie.) [/QUOTE]
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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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