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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5990231" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>To make sure we are on the same page, "deep immersion" is something that I'm postulating as the roleplaying equivalent of method acting. The players would strive at all times to inhabit the mind of the character, and then cause the character to act consistent with that mind. In some case, the player may even (relatively lightly) feel the emotions that the character is feeling. (I say relatively lightly, because the characters in the fiction can often go into very extreme emotions that would not be approriate at the table for the player--nor healthy, for that matter.) I also think this necessarily implies some kind of unconscious or partially conscious absorption of the background/personality of the character, as a hedge against outside stimulus that doesn't fit (e.g. rolling dice). </p><p> </p><p>Shallow immersion is more akin to character acting. It's all about the external portrait painted. The shared experience may be moving, and experienced as such by the participants, but not directly because of the link between character and player.</p><p> </p><p>So were you previously a deep immersionist, but found it unsatisfying and eventually changed? Or were you more of a shallow immersionist that discovered process sim wasn't getting the job done and/or was too limiting for you?</p><p> </p><p>The reason I ask is that my critique above is not to cast aspersions on deep immersionists. They got enough flak in the 1990s to last them a lifetime. Rather, I'm trying to explore why there seems to be a brick wall between deep and shallow immersionists on questions of game mechanics, where all of us keep butting our heads. My current best guess is that deep immersionists like being in the audience while the magic show goes on. So they strongly resist any attempt to get them to peek behind the curtain. Meanwhile, a shallow immersionist is all about ripping the curtain back to better understand how the trick works, so we can all do it at the same table. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5990231, member: 54877"] To make sure we are on the same page, "deep immersion" is something that I'm postulating as the roleplaying equivalent of method acting. The players would strive at all times to inhabit the mind of the character, and then cause the character to act consistent with that mind. In some case, the player may even (relatively lightly) feel the emotions that the character is feeling. (I say relatively lightly, because the characters in the fiction can often go into very extreme emotions that would not be approriate at the table for the player--nor healthy, for that matter.) I also think this necessarily implies some kind of unconscious or partially conscious absorption of the background/personality of the character, as a hedge against outside stimulus that doesn't fit (e.g. rolling dice). Shallow immersion is more akin to character acting. It's all about the external portrait painted. The shared experience may be moving, and experienced as such by the participants, but not directly because of the link between character and player. So were you previously a deep immersionist, but found it unsatisfying and eventually changed? Or were you more of a shallow immersionist that discovered process sim wasn't getting the job done and/or was too limiting for you? The reason I ask is that my critique above is not to cast aspersions on deep immersionists. They got enough flak in the 1990s to last them a lifetime. Rather, I'm trying to explore why there seems to be a brick wall between deep and shallow immersionists on questions of game mechanics, where all of us keep butting our heads. My current best guess is that deep immersionists like being in the audience while the magic show goes on. So they strongly resist any attempt to get them to peek behind the curtain. Meanwhile, a shallow immersionist is all about ripping the curtain back to better understand how the trick works, so we can all do it at the same table. :) [/QUOTE]
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