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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5990344" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Actually that's a completely different issue. It's a stance and a simulationist issue. And a suggested playstyle one.</p><p></p><p>The first question is whether Legolas's shield surfing changed what he was actually doing - was it fundamentally different from running down the stairs. 3.0 being simulationist would as a rule say "He's sliding down the stairs on a shield. Wtf? Balance check!" 4e being more character-driven and cinematic would say "Can he get that far without the shield? Let him do it." Although some DMs of each would fit the other category. This is playstyle and worldbuilding - but 4e indicates one way, 3.X the other.</p><p></p><p>The second point is opportunity attacks. At a rough count, Legolas in 3.X would have given the orcs six AoOs to use against him there. In 4e rangers can sometimes shift pretty far - so no OAs (and being an elf, difficult terrain like stairs doesn't slow him when shifting). Trying that stunt in 3.X would have turned Legolas into cuisineart.</p><p></p><p>The third point is the number of arrows sliding down the stairs. Four - and Legolas is moving. That's not a full round attack. So no <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#rapidShot" target="_blank">Rapid Shot</a>. And <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#manyshot" target="_blank">Manyshot</a> specifies a single opponent. Four arrows at four orcs in one standard action? Not happening in 3.X. A burst 1 attack making a shot against each enemy in the burst? That's a standard at will for a Hunter.</p><p></p><p>So shield-surfing like that? Almost entirely RAW for a 4e character set up to perform stunts like that. (Of course this is a <em>slightly</em> unfair comparison because I'm pretty sure that the 4e archer ranger was at least inspired by movie!Legolas).</p><p></p><p>This doesn't mean that you can't play Legolas doing that without AEDU powers. Feng Shui doesn't have AEDU but I could do that with a feng shui archer with a couple of gun schticks. It just isn't something that could happen in <em>pre-4e D&D</em>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5990344, member: 87792"] Actually that's a completely different issue. It's a stance and a simulationist issue. And a suggested playstyle one. The first question is whether Legolas's shield surfing changed what he was actually doing - was it fundamentally different from running down the stairs. 3.0 being simulationist would as a rule say "He's sliding down the stairs on a shield. Wtf? Balance check!" 4e being more character-driven and cinematic would say "Can he get that far without the shield? Let him do it." Although some DMs of each would fit the other category. This is playstyle and worldbuilding - but 4e indicates one way, 3.X the other. The second point is opportunity attacks. At a rough count, Legolas in 3.X would have given the orcs six AoOs to use against him there. In 4e rangers can sometimes shift pretty far - so no OAs (and being an elf, difficult terrain like stairs doesn't slow him when shifting). Trying that stunt in 3.X would have turned Legolas into cuisineart. The third point is the number of arrows sliding down the stairs. Four - and Legolas is moving. That's not a full round attack. So no [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#rapidShot"]Rapid Shot[/URL]. And [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#manyshot"]Manyshot[/URL] specifies a single opponent. Four arrows at four orcs in one standard action? Not happening in 3.X. A burst 1 attack making a shot against each enemy in the burst? That's a standard at will for a Hunter. So shield-surfing like that? Almost entirely RAW for a 4e character set up to perform stunts like that. (Of course this is a [I]slightly[/I] unfair comparison because I'm pretty sure that the 4e archer ranger was at least inspired by movie!Legolas). This doesn't mean that you can't play Legolas doing that without AEDU powers. Feng Shui doesn't have AEDU but I could do that with a feng shui archer with a couple of gun schticks. It just isn't something that could happen in [I]pre-4e D&D[/I]. [/QUOTE]
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