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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Underman" data-source="post: 5993319" data-attributes="member: 6696705"><p>Seems that I'm at risk for being called a bogus psychologist now, but if so, I'm a sincere one...</p><p></p><p>Preamble: I have not played the abovementioned games because nobody was playing them in our group, probably because they seem fiddly and complicated, but I don't remember. I have played other systems. I agree that other systems can do process sim better.</p><p></p><p style="text-align: left">I would find it jarring to read that pre-4E is the <em>best</em> system for process sim, but I don't believe anybody said that.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">I believe the going claim is that pre-4E <em>sufficed</em> for their subjective goals of process-sim or faux-process-sim, and hopefully, that 5E will continue this trend but with more streamlined mechanics.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p><p></p><p>I want to emphasize the importance of defining what is "great" for delivering process-sim play. For you, the bar of "great" seems to be Runequest, etc. and anything below that is insufficient. OK. So you find it jarring that anybody would find 3E "great" for that. OK. Acknowledged. What's the next topic?</p><p></p><p>Personally, I find it useless to provide such actual play examples, because i) these anectodes are nitpicked to absurdity ii) detractors with seeming victim complexes try to find faults to invalidate the examples, ii) it becomes an argument ad nauseum of attrition, iv) the fact that some have been arguing for <em>years</em> is a proven track record of either obstinacy or being so disparate such that any attempt at reconciling viewpoints is deemed futile.</p><p></p><p>I mean the last point is pretty important. If some guys are debating for years about the same topics over and over, what is that essentially saying?</p><p></p><p>That's understandable, but see above.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Underman, post: 5993319, member: 6696705"] Seems that I'm at risk for being called a bogus psychologist now, but if so, I'm a sincere one... Preamble: I have not played the abovementioned games because nobody was playing them in our group, probably because they seem fiddly and complicated, but I don't remember. I have played other systems. I agree that other systems can do process sim better. [LEFT]I would find it jarring to read that pre-4E is the [I]best[/I] system for process sim, but I don't believe anybody said that. I believe the going claim is that pre-4E [I]sufficed[/I] for their subjective goals of process-sim or faux-process-sim, and hopefully, that 5E will continue this trend but with more streamlined mechanics. [/LEFT] I want to emphasize the importance of defining what is "great" for delivering process-sim play. For you, the bar of "great" seems to be Runequest, etc. and anything below that is insufficient. OK. So you find it jarring that anybody would find 3E "great" for that. OK. Acknowledged. What's the next topic? Personally, I find it useless to provide such actual play examples, because i) these anectodes are nitpicked to absurdity ii) detractors with seeming victim complexes try to find faults to invalidate the examples, ii) it becomes an argument ad nauseum of attrition, iv) the fact that some have been arguing for [I]years[/I] is a proven track record of either obstinacy or being so disparate such that any attempt at reconciling viewpoints is deemed futile. I mean the last point is pretty important. If some guys are debating for years about the same topics over and over, what is that essentially saying? That's understandable, but see above. [/QUOTE]
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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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