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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Emerikol" data-source="post: 5993437" data-attributes="member: 6698278"><p>The problem though is that it is not collective unconsciousness. You've used a straw man example. Those people believe a million different things. They are not unified in their thinking at all. The CIA, the Mafia, Fidel Castro, bla bla bla you can go on forever. So this is a false analogy.</p><p></p><p>It would be amazing and worth note if the vast majority of people after examining the evidence came to the SAME conclusion about it. Which is the dissociative mechanics argument. I came up with a fairly complicated theory and wrote a blog about it entirely independently of another guy. He wrote the dissociative mechanics blog and I wrote the metagame dissonance blog. And we are arguing about the existing of a precise thing. You can argue that we shouldn't be bothered by it or that you are not bothered by it. But saying it doesn't exist at all is just plain foolishness.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm becoming more convinced every day. It's like you can't see the color red and you keep trying to explain how it's just like black. Whereas those who can see red keep scratching our heads.</p><p></p><p>The DM playing an NPC in the world is not a plot coupon. A divination is a contact with an NPC Outer planes being. Of course the DM has to play all the NPCs. I'm not a shopkeeper either. So I have to play a role. That though is not a plot coupon. A plot coupon is when a player is making choices for his character that is character doesn't know about. Please read my blog on metagame dissonance on the WOTC boards for a full explanation of plot coupons.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1. I don't recognize your example as a plot coupon.</p><p>2. I don't view omniscience as relating to plot coupons. It may relate to realism but as I've said elsewhere realism and plot coupons are unrelated.</p><p></p><p>Here is a mental exercise to help you. The follow are completely and absolutely unrelated. There may be correlations but there is no true connection.</p><p>1. Realism.</p><p>2. Abstraction.</p><p>3. Plot Coupons/Dissociative Mechanics/Metagame Dissonance</p><p></p><p>Until you can truly understand that those three are unrelated. I can have a thing which is 1,2,3 or Not 1, Not 2, 3 and I can have every other combination.</p><p></p><p>This is why its so frustrating. We might progress beyond definitions and then discuss mechanics that support our styles. I don't think you need plot coupons to be happy. You just don't mind them. So when possible if we can have mechanics that don't offend either of us that is desirable. But when one group keeps insisting the other group can't distinguish what it's talking about then we can't make progress. We aren't going to just start liking this stuff that bothers us. It bothered us before we ever came up with a theory for it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Emerikol, post: 5993437, member: 6698278"] The problem though is that it is not collective unconsciousness. You've used a straw man example. Those people believe a million different things. They are not unified in their thinking at all. The CIA, the Mafia, Fidel Castro, bla bla bla you can go on forever. So this is a false analogy. It would be amazing and worth note if the vast majority of people after examining the evidence came to the SAME conclusion about it. Which is the dissociative mechanics argument. I came up with a fairly complicated theory and wrote a blog about it entirely independently of another guy. He wrote the dissociative mechanics blog and I wrote the metagame dissonance blog. And we are arguing about the existing of a precise thing. You can argue that we shouldn't be bothered by it or that you are not bothered by it. But saying it doesn't exist at all is just plain foolishness. I'm becoming more convinced every day. It's like you can't see the color red and you keep trying to explain how it's just like black. Whereas those who can see red keep scratching our heads. The DM playing an NPC in the world is not a plot coupon. A divination is a contact with an NPC Outer planes being. Of course the DM has to play all the NPCs. I'm not a shopkeeper either. So I have to play a role. That though is not a plot coupon. A plot coupon is when a player is making choices for his character that is character doesn't know about. Please read my blog on metagame dissonance on the WOTC boards for a full explanation of plot coupons. 1. I don't recognize your example as a plot coupon. 2. I don't view omniscience as relating to plot coupons. It may relate to realism but as I've said elsewhere realism and plot coupons are unrelated. Here is a mental exercise to help you. The follow are completely and absolutely unrelated. There may be correlations but there is no true connection. 1. Realism. 2. Abstraction. 3. Plot Coupons/Dissociative Mechanics/Metagame Dissonance Until you can truly understand that those three are unrelated. I can have a thing which is 1,2,3 or Not 1, Not 2, 3 and I can have every other combination. This is why its so frustrating. We might progress beyond definitions and then discuss mechanics that support our styles. I don't think you need plot coupons to be happy. You just don't mind them. So when possible if we can have mechanics that don't offend either of us that is desirable. But when one group keeps insisting the other group can't distinguish what it's talking about then we can't make progress. We aren't going to just start liking this stuff that bothers us. It bothered us before we ever came up with a theory for it. [/QUOTE]
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