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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5993767" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>That's the trade off I mentioned earlier, with fidelity to process competing with mechanics simple enough to fade into the background. I think a lot of us have had reactions basically like yours, and thought something along the lines of, "Hey, it's too much fidelity to process sim that's causing the problem, for relatively little gain. So let's explore other ways to handle these issue so that we can move on." Thing is, some of these ways are more appealing to a given person than another:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Process - sim as elegant as possible, then learn the system so well that it fades despite being complex--effort in system mastery for immersion rather than gamist concerns.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Use a rules light system with processes only mapping in key areas that appeal at your table.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">DM fiat to get that process - sim patina out of mechanics that aren't really (fluff hiding or even flat out lying about the real nature of the mechanics being immensely important here).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Drop the idea of process - sim altogether for something else -- typically player-driven (e.g. actor stance quality) or result-sim as a first step.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Move all the process sim onto the DM, maybe even going so far as to take the character sheets away from the players. (Everyone knows the DM is crunching all the factors, but in character, in play it's not relevant to the player, theoretically.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Move the process sim into the background and/or away from the table. (A lot of "micro engineer something realistic to handle well in play," is of this nature.)</li> </ul><p>I'm sure there are others. But the one that I think first grabs hold of imagination and is hard to drop is kind of a "philosophers stone" chase that if only enough smart people work on the process-sim long enough, it will all work smoothly and do everything that everyone wants. You almost have to try to write your own process-sim system to completely get this out of your head. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5993767, member: 54877"] That's the trade off I mentioned earlier, with fidelity to process competing with mechanics simple enough to fade into the background. I think a lot of us have had reactions basically like yours, and thought something along the lines of, "Hey, it's too much fidelity to process sim that's causing the problem, for relatively little gain. So let's explore other ways to handle these issue so that we can move on." Thing is, some of these ways are more appealing to a given person than another: [LIST] [*]Process - sim as elegant as possible, then learn the system so well that it fades despite being complex--effort in system mastery for immersion rather than gamist concerns. [*]Use a rules light system with processes only mapping in key areas that appeal at your table. [*]DM fiat to get that process - sim patina out of mechanics that aren't really (fluff hiding or even flat out lying about the real nature of the mechanics being immensely important here). [*]Drop the idea of process - sim altogether for something else -- typically player-driven (e.g. actor stance quality) or result-sim as a first step. [*]Move all the process sim onto the DM, maybe even going so far as to take the character sheets away from the players. (Everyone knows the DM is crunching all the factors, but in character, in play it's not relevant to the player, theoretically.) [*]Move the process sim into the background and/or away from the table. (A lot of "micro engineer something realistic to handle well in play," is of this nature.) [/LIST]I'm sure there are others. But the one that I think first grabs hold of imagination and is hard to drop is kind of a "philosophers stone" chase that if only enough smart people work on the process-sim long enough, it will all work smoothly and do everything that everyone wants. You almost have to try to write your own process-sim system to completely get this out of your head. :D [/QUOTE]
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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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