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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 5998345" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>@<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/jamesoncourage.html" target="_blank">JamesonCourage</a> I understand that you're trying to be "peace-broker" or "sense-talker" here and not "antagonist," but I don't think you're circumnavigating the dynamics of this thread fully nor all of the loaded jargon and experiences of the recent edition wars. You definitely aren't being very fair to @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/pemerton.html" target="_blank">pemerton</a> who, at the very least, engages thoughtfully on subjects. You do not see him offhandedly quip, shallow, edition-war-loaded catch phrases or jargon, ad nauseum, <u>while refusing to engage specific rejoinders or efforts to communicate something of enough specificity that it can at least be discussed</u>. By my estimation, absolutely nothing is more caustic to dialogue, more "well-poisoning" than that M.O. My guess is that if that M.O. were to no longer persist (on either side of the edition-war fence), you would no longer see people waging an "aggressive defense" as you put it. Further, one man's "aggressive defense" is another man's thoughtful, pointed/precise, circumnavigated response...and justified completely when answering repeated, shallow, unjustified (perhaps not <em>unjustifiable</em>...but in specific cases unjustified...because the commenter refuses to engage) claims. If you make a harsh, clearly provocative claim and your reasoning is shallow, or worse you refuse to even give it, expect people to demand justification in their follow-up. If you do it repeatedly and then cry foul at their request for the specificities of your reason...expect them to get exasperated and the "aggressive defenses" to come out. And expect it to be "on you."</p><p></p><p>All you need do is look at @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/nagol.html" target="_blank">Nagol</a> 's thoughtful and well-considered responses to my last two queries. He's respectful to the effort that I put in to engage his ideas and his rejoinders are clearly well-considered (even if we may disagree in part). If every person that pemerton engaged with on these issues were as respectful and thoughtful as Nagol's last two responses to me, my guess is you wouldn't feel like you need to be a "peace-broker" or "sense-talker" and you wouldn't be indicting pemerton for an "aggressive defense" (unless you just don't like the writing style...I already know that you don't like mine as you've told me on more than one occasion...and I've extended my sincere sympathies.).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 5998345, member: 6696971"] @[URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/jamesoncourage.html"]JamesonCourage[/URL] I understand that you're trying to be "peace-broker" or "sense-talker" here and not "antagonist," but I don't think you're circumnavigating the dynamics of this thread fully nor all of the loaded jargon and experiences of the recent edition wars. You definitely aren't being very fair to @[URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/pemerton.html"]pemerton[/URL] who, at the very least, engages thoughtfully on subjects. You do not see him offhandedly quip, shallow, edition-war-loaded catch phrases or jargon, ad nauseum, [U]while refusing to engage specific rejoinders or efforts to communicate something of enough specificity that it can at least be discussed[/U]. By my estimation, absolutely nothing is more caustic to dialogue, more "well-poisoning" than that M.O. My guess is that if that M.O. were to no longer persist (on either side of the edition-war fence), you would no longer see people waging an "aggressive defense" as you put it. Further, one man's "aggressive defense" is another man's thoughtful, pointed/precise, circumnavigated response...and justified completely when answering repeated, shallow, unjustified (perhaps not [I]unjustifiable[/I]...but in specific cases unjustified...because the commenter refuses to engage) claims. If you make a harsh, clearly provocative claim and your reasoning is shallow, or worse you refuse to even give it, expect people to demand justification in their follow-up. If you do it repeatedly and then cry foul at their request for the specificities of your reason...expect them to get exasperated and the "aggressive defenses" to come out. And expect it to be "on you." All you need do is look at @[URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/nagol.html"]Nagol[/URL] 's thoughtful and well-considered responses to my last two queries. He's respectful to the effort that I put in to engage his ideas and his rejoinders are clearly well-considered (even if we may disagree in part). If every person that pemerton engaged with on these issues were as respectful and thoughtful as Nagol's last two responses to me, my guess is you wouldn't feel like you need to be a "peace-broker" or "sense-talker" and you wouldn't be indicting pemerton for an "aggressive defense" (unless you just don't like the writing style...I already know that you don't like mine as you've told me on more than one occasion...and I've extended my sincere sympathies.). [/QUOTE]
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