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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 5999676" data-attributes="member: 5038"><p>Technically, I would disagree. First, PrCs were an optional rule under DM purview. They were not a default a rule available to the players (at least, in 3.0. As to whether they are still listed in the DMG as being an optional rule, I don't know. I don't know). Second, if you are going to mention PrCs, there are a number of official options available for customizing the character from the start.</p><p></p><p>1. Customizing the Character (PHB 3.0 and 3.5): Granted there was only one example in the PHB and very little support was given in 3.0 supplements (e.g., the Urban Ranger which I believe was in Masters of the Wild), there much more support in 3.5 supplements</p><p></p><p>2. Variant Spell lists (DMG)</p><p>3. Variant: 0/0 level multi class at first level (3.0 DMG)</p><p></p><p></p><p>With 3.5 we see a number of options presented for character customization.</p><p>a. UA Class variants: examples include the Barbarian Hunter (trades rage for Ranger Weapon Style and Favored Enemy), Bardic Sage, Divine Bard, Savage bard, Cloistered Cleric (weak combatant, sage-like), Monk Fighting Styles, Martial Rogue (Trade Sneak Attack for Fighter bonus feats), Wilderness Rogue (variant skill list; can be combined with the Martial Rogue), urban ranger.</p><p>b. Complete Champion class variants: Spell-less Paladin and Spell-less Ranger. Instead of spellcasting, they receive a bonus feat (from a set list0 every time they would gain a new spell. This was a common internet house rule going back to 3e. I think that I first saw it on Monte Cook's site. (there was a different Spell-less Ranger in the earlier Complete Warrior)</p><p>c. Cityscape web enhancement 1 Urban/Wilderness Skill Swap: Basically, a codified version of an idea seen in the Wilderness Rogue and, already, used by those DMs impementing the PHB class customization.</p><p>d. Variant Class features: These appeared in Unearthed Arcana (e.g., the Favored Environment variant that replaces a rangers favored enemy class feature).</p><p>e. Substitution levels: Appeared in PHB2 and other books</p><p>f. alternate spellcasting methods (e.g., Spontaneous Divine casting in which the cleric has a smaller list of spells known, but casts spells like a sorcerer (it can even be applied to the Druid) or DMG variant: tailored spell lists)</p><p></p><p>The issues was that the above, like PrC, required the DM to allow their use and might not be allowed. However, the point is that were many options for tailoring the character at the start rather than simply the PrC option.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Greg K, post: 5999676, member: 5038"] Technically, I would disagree. First, PrCs were an optional rule under DM purview. They were not a default a rule available to the players (at least, in 3.0. As to whether they are still listed in the DMG as being an optional rule, I don't know. I don't know). Second, if you are going to mention PrCs, there are a number of official options available for customizing the character from the start. 1. Customizing the Character (PHB 3.0 and 3.5): Granted there was only one example in the PHB and very little support was given in 3.0 supplements (e.g., the Urban Ranger which I believe was in Masters of the Wild), there much more support in 3.5 supplements 2. Variant Spell lists (DMG) 3. Variant: 0/0 level multi class at first level (3.0 DMG) With 3.5 we see a number of options presented for character customization. a. UA Class variants: examples include the Barbarian Hunter (trades rage for Ranger Weapon Style and Favored Enemy), Bardic Sage, Divine Bard, Savage bard, Cloistered Cleric (weak combatant, sage-like), Monk Fighting Styles, Martial Rogue (Trade Sneak Attack for Fighter bonus feats), Wilderness Rogue (variant skill list; can be combined with the Martial Rogue), urban ranger. b. Complete Champion class variants: Spell-less Paladin and Spell-less Ranger. Instead of spellcasting, they receive a bonus feat (from a set list0 every time they would gain a new spell. This was a common internet house rule going back to 3e. I think that I first saw it on Monte Cook's site. (there was a different Spell-less Ranger in the earlier Complete Warrior) c. Cityscape web enhancement 1 Urban/Wilderness Skill Swap: Basically, a codified version of an idea seen in the Wilderness Rogue and, already, used by those DMs impementing the PHB class customization. d. Variant Class features: These appeared in Unearthed Arcana (e.g., the Favored Environment variant that replaces a rangers favored enemy class feature). e. Substitution levels: Appeared in PHB2 and other books f. alternate spellcasting methods (e.g., Spontaneous Divine casting in which the cleric has a smaller list of spells known, but casts spells like a sorcerer (it can even be applied to the Druid) or DMG variant: tailored spell lists) The issues was that the above, like PrC, required the DM to allow their use and might not be allowed. However, the point is that were many options for tailoring the character at the start rather than simply the PrC option. [/QUOTE]
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