Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Libramarian" data-source="post: 6002183" data-attributes="member: 6688858"><p>It's basically just the same thing as a metagame mechanic. It's broader, I suppose, in the sense that it includes both metagame mechanics that facilitate a metagame agenda, and metagame mechanics that don't. In other words, it includes both good, useful metagame mechanics and bad, pointless ones.</p><p></p><p>From <a href="http://www.darkshire.net/%7Ejhkim/rpg/theory/glossary/fulllist.html:" target="_blank">http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/theory/glossary/fulllist.html:</a></p><p><strong>Metagame mechanics</strong> Traditionally, mechanics which are not representative of in-game reality. For example, plot points or Drama Deck cards would be examples. In Ron Edwards' <a href="http://www.darkshire.net/%7Ejhkim/rpg/theory/glossary/fulllist.html#bigmodel" target="_blank">Big Model</a>, this is termed as "where System and Social Contract meet, without Exploration as the medium."</p><p></p><p>I consider martial dailies in 4e to be bad metagame mechanics, because I don't see how they facilitate gamism or narrativism better than associated alternatives. It just seems lazy and unimaginative to me to make martial special attacks function as a daily resource rather than coming up with a different, more associated balancing mechanism.</p><p></p><p>I see dissociated mechanics as a necessary evil. A lot of people don't like them, complaining that they disrupt immersion, so you should only use them when they're really fun to play with. Be wary of them, avoid them when possible. As armchair designer I would never have approved martial dailies for 4e.</p><p></p><p>Is it dissociated, yeah, but apparently it's fun enough that people don't bother to complain about it. Or people are just buzzed about new shiny at the moment. I haven't playtested this iteration so I don't know. Going back to CrazyJerome's analogy with poetic meter, if a poem is really brilliant but not in iambic pentameter, it doesn't change the fact that it's not in iambic pentameter. What changes is the frequency that people will bother to mention that it's not in iambic pentameter.</p><p></p><p>You could look at this as a positive sign that people aren't so obsessed with the concept of dissociated mechanics that they've become unable to enjoy them no matter how appropriate and well-executed they are. That seemed to be what you were afraid of in the part of your post that I snipped off.</p><p></p><p>I think what would reconcile your confusion here, if you're willing to consider it, is the idea that a lot of people just didn't find AEDU that much fun to play with. If it really were super fun, then I think that would have shined through and people wouldn't have complained about dissociation so much.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Libramarian, post: 6002183, member: 6688858"] It's basically just the same thing as a metagame mechanic. It's broader, I suppose, in the sense that it includes both metagame mechanics that facilitate a metagame agenda, and metagame mechanics that don't. In other words, it includes both good, useful metagame mechanics and bad, pointless ones. From [URL="http://www.darkshire.net/%7Ejhkim/rpg/theory/glossary/fulllist.html:"]http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/theory/glossary/fulllist.html:[/URL] [B]Metagame mechanics[/B] Traditionally, mechanics which are not representative of in-game reality. For example, plot points or Drama Deck cards would be examples. In Ron Edwards' [URL="http://www.darkshire.net/%7Ejhkim/rpg/theory/glossary/fulllist.html#bigmodel"]Big Model[/URL], this is termed as "where System and Social Contract meet, without Exploration as the medium." I consider martial dailies in 4e to be bad metagame mechanics, because I don't see how they facilitate gamism or narrativism better than associated alternatives. It just seems lazy and unimaginative to me to make martial special attacks function as a daily resource rather than coming up with a different, more associated balancing mechanism. I see dissociated mechanics as a necessary evil. A lot of people don't like them, complaining that they disrupt immersion, so you should only use them when they're really fun to play with. Be wary of them, avoid them when possible. As armchair designer I would never have approved martial dailies for 4e. Is it dissociated, yeah, but apparently it's fun enough that people don't bother to complain about it. Or people are just buzzed about new shiny at the moment. I haven't playtested this iteration so I don't know. Going back to CrazyJerome's analogy with poetic meter, if a poem is really brilliant but not in iambic pentameter, it doesn't change the fact that it's not in iambic pentameter. What changes is the frequency that people will bother to mention that it's not in iambic pentameter. You could look at this as a positive sign that people aren't so obsessed with the concept of dissociated mechanics that they've become unable to enjoy them no matter how appropriate and well-executed they are. That seemed to be what you were afraid of in the part of your post that I snipped off. I think what would reconcile your confusion here, if you're willing to consider it, is the idea that a lot of people just didn't find AEDU that much fun to play with. If it really were super fun, then I think that would have shined through and people wouldn't have complained about dissociation so much. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
Top