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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 6005901" data-attributes="member: 5038"><p>I am always surprised when people make that assumption. Then again, Pathfinder definitely, has not absorbed the 3.0 or 3.5 gamers that I know. At best, it is a source for a few extra spells and feats and the game itself is disliked almost as strongly as 4e (which itself does have a handful of things that are liked, but things like the AEDU, removal of skill points, heavy consolidation of skills, more abstract hit points, paladin marking, removal of "sim" aspects assure we will never touch it).</p><p></p><p>5e, at the moment, is just as strongly disliked as Pathfinder and 4e among the gameres I know and nobody wants to playtest it (4e at least has three groups playing it. Two are DM'd begrudgingly- one because it was in print and the other because it is easy to prep despite fighting design assumptions/mechanics) . Combat Superiority (in its current form although better than martial AEDU based upon recovery), Cleric (cleric spell list access, turn undead as always prepared, healing as the base channel divinity ability, built for only one domain), the Sorcerer ( the draconic heritage being forced into the role of a gish, the pathetic spell list and to lesser degree the sorcerer manifestation), Dwarf and Elf immunities, hit point thresholds, returning to con bonus per level rather than just con score at first level, halflings not being penalized for strength or carry capacity are all among the things being found unacceptable. </p><p></p><p>To be fair to the designers of 4e and Next, for several of us, WOTC has been the design team has been the team that that cannot shoot straight as far back as 3e and d20M. Most of their supplements were considered pathetic (a few exceptions existed like Unearthed Arcana, Fiendish Codex I, some of the dedicated monster books). The strength of those systems were in Unearthed Arcana and supplements from several third party companies. Surprisingly, some of the designers did some good third party stuff prior to joining WOTC or after leaving.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Greg K, post: 6005901, member: 5038"] I am always surprised when people make that assumption. Then again, Pathfinder definitely, has not absorbed the 3.0 or 3.5 gamers that I know. At best, it is a source for a few extra spells and feats and the game itself is disliked almost as strongly as 4e (which itself does have a handful of things that are liked, but things like the AEDU, removal of skill points, heavy consolidation of skills, more abstract hit points, paladin marking, removal of "sim" aspects assure we will never touch it). 5e, at the moment, is just as strongly disliked as Pathfinder and 4e among the gameres I know and nobody wants to playtest it (4e at least has three groups playing it. Two are DM'd begrudgingly- one because it was in print and the other because it is easy to prep despite fighting design assumptions/mechanics) . Combat Superiority (in its current form although better than martial AEDU based upon recovery), Cleric (cleric spell list access, turn undead as always prepared, healing as the base channel divinity ability, built for only one domain), the Sorcerer ( the draconic heritage being forced into the role of a gish, the pathetic spell list and to lesser degree the sorcerer manifestation), Dwarf and Elf immunities, hit point thresholds, returning to con bonus per level rather than just con score at first level, halflings not being penalized for strength or carry capacity are all among the things being found unacceptable. To be fair to the designers of 4e and Next, for several of us, WOTC has been the design team has been the team that that cannot shoot straight as far back as 3e and d20M. Most of their supplements were considered pathetic (a few exceptions existed like Unearthed Arcana, Fiendish Codex I, some of the dedicated monster books). The strength of those systems were in Unearthed Arcana and supplements from several third party companies. Surprisingly, some of the designers did some good third party stuff prior to joining WOTC or after leaving. [/QUOTE]
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