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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6016689" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>But, that's not the problem though. It's not that Color Spray is broken. It's that it's significantly more effective than other options. Same with web or glitterdust. Both of which are effectively save or die - webbed targets that fail their save are stuck. Fill them full of arrows and you're done. A blinded target is pretty much a victim - 50% miss chance and a -4 on all attacks? Yeah, it's toast.</p><p></p><p>Again, I'm not talking about ridiculous builds. I'm talking about that 16 Int wizard.</p><p></p><p>/edit</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Umm, no? That's not how it works. The wizard at that level has 27000 gp worth of equipment. Period. Full stop. That something was sold for half value doesn't change that. You simply sell more stuff that you didn't need. He still has that 27000 gp to play with. Which means if he spends 8000 crafting something, it doesn't matter where the 27k came from. He's out 8k of 27k. Not 16. Because, after he crafts, he's still got 19k worth to play with. Otherwise, you're saying that PC's should all have half expected weath, because they can never sell anything. It doesn't work that way.</p><p></p><p>But, all this is beside the point. Heck, buy a +2 headband of intellect if it makes you happier. Same effect. So he loses +1 off his DC? Who cares? He's bloody near as effective without that headband at all. </p><p></p><p>Why are we even discussing this? I cannot believe that after this long people STILL refuse to accept that some of us have a problem with casters being over powered in our games. Instead of trying to convince us that this problem never exists, how about actually offering useful advice beyond something nebulous like "smart play"? Hey, you never have this problem. That's fantastic. What's your secret.</p><p></p><p>I mean, I posted a little bit ago a perfect storm of where casters are going to dominate - no time limits, lots of down time, etc. And I STILL got told that no problem exists.</p><p></p><p>Look, it comes down to this:</p><p></p><p>Just because you are not having this problem does not mean no one else is. Try actually accepting that we are having this issue and would like to see this issue rectified. If you have some magic bullet that we can use to fix the problem in our games, please stop keeping it a secret. And please stop trying to shift the blame onto the players. It's not the players. Our players are probably no different from your players. It's just that our players apparently have bought into the idea of system competence (I refuse to call choosing color spray over burning hands system master) to a greater degree than yours. Good grief, Bill91, you're saying that a wizard choosing an Int boost item is abusing the system. Seriously? I would hope that you would hold the same disdain for Guantlets of Ogre Power and +1 swords. After all, that's every bit as system abusing as the wizard's choices.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6016689, member: 22779"] But, that's not the problem though. It's not that Color Spray is broken. It's that it's significantly more effective than other options. Same with web or glitterdust. Both of which are effectively save or die - webbed targets that fail their save are stuck. Fill them full of arrows and you're done. A blinded target is pretty much a victim - 50% miss chance and a -4 on all attacks? Yeah, it's toast. Again, I'm not talking about ridiculous builds. I'm talking about that 16 Int wizard. /edit Umm, no? That's not how it works. The wizard at that level has 27000 gp worth of equipment. Period. Full stop. That something was sold for half value doesn't change that. You simply sell more stuff that you didn't need. He still has that 27000 gp to play with. Which means if he spends 8000 crafting something, it doesn't matter where the 27k came from. He's out 8k of 27k. Not 16. Because, after he crafts, he's still got 19k worth to play with. Otherwise, you're saying that PC's should all have half expected weath, because they can never sell anything. It doesn't work that way. But, all this is beside the point. Heck, buy a +2 headband of intellect if it makes you happier. Same effect. So he loses +1 off his DC? Who cares? He's bloody near as effective without that headband at all. Why are we even discussing this? I cannot believe that after this long people STILL refuse to accept that some of us have a problem with casters being over powered in our games. Instead of trying to convince us that this problem never exists, how about actually offering useful advice beyond something nebulous like "smart play"? Hey, you never have this problem. That's fantastic. What's your secret. I mean, I posted a little bit ago a perfect storm of where casters are going to dominate - no time limits, lots of down time, etc. And I STILL got told that no problem exists. Look, it comes down to this: Just because you are not having this problem does not mean no one else is. Try actually accepting that we are having this issue and would like to see this issue rectified. If you have some magic bullet that we can use to fix the problem in our games, please stop keeping it a secret. And please stop trying to shift the blame onto the players. It's not the players. Our players are probably no different from your players. It's just that our players apparently have bought into the idea of system competence (I refuse to call choosing color spray over burning hands system master) to a greater degree than yours. Good grief, Bill91, you're saying that a wizard choosing an Int boost item is abusing the system. Seriously? I would hope that you would hold the same disdain for Guantlets of Ogre Power and +1 swords. After all, that's every bit as system abusing as the wizard's choices. [/QUOTE]
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