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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 6019200" data-attributes="member: 6688937"><p>Assuming this is accurate, and comparing it to my experiences FATE; The different bit would seem to be the requirement of failure in order to advance. There's no FATE requirement of failing a skill before advancing that skill. The rest is similar, but FATE doesn't usually ask the player to find ways to "push" to failure.* Wishing to exploit such an opportunity, a player need not make any rolls, the consequences of playing up to the aspect are simply narrated and FP collected. Early FATE made this a GM responsibility, but modern versions allow/encourage players to initiate such exchanges. </p><p></p><p>FATE wouldn't explicitly require the other players to Vote and wouldn't give them the direct power to change your character, but in a group playing it closer to the Narrative end I would expect effectively similar discussions to take place. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The pressure to play up to aspects is one of FATE's "dials" and is dependent, IME, on what is usually called the "refresh rate" for FATE Points. (Its actually the "Starting" pool of FP for new characters, but with the presumption that between adventures, it will reset to this level.) The FP economy is one of the most important aspects (no pun intended) in FATE, but its also one of the most flexible. Having FP around to spend during important or difficult scenes can really make a tremendous difference in your character's effectiveness. Using "Honourable", if you're drained of FP...well you can't, except to take an honourable dive and earn an FP for it. (You can spend FATE points suboptimally without using an aspect, but you can't use aspects without FATE points.)</p><p></p><p>So, if the refresh rate is set low, you might start play with 5 (or even 3) FP (Theoretically 0 is possible, but I haven't seen it). You will feel a lot more pressure from the start to play up the "softer" or negative side of your aspects to earn more FP. Conversely, I've seen the refresh start as high as 15 in a convention game...giving almost no incentive to use the aspects early on to generate story. To be fair, that may have been intentional, since that scenario was a pretty straightforward "dungeon-crawl" (despite its modern day trappings).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Variable in FATE implementations. Some use FP as "experience points" to purchase advancement in skills or additional stunts. That seems to be falling out of fashion, though. (I suspect in-part because long-running FATE campaigns are rarities.) Changing Aspects, though, is a common occurrence. Most FATE implementations recommend that after each scenario plays out, all players review their aspects and alter them accordingly (sometimes restricted to 1/scenario). Additionally, most recommend that if something "big" happens in play, that aspect(s) can be changed immediately. You can also gain a new aspect as part of consequences to losing a contest. In FATE your character can actually lose limbs, etc. Similarly, you could also get aspects like "Banished from Ardia" as the consequence of losing a social contest.</p><p></p><p>Whether all that amounts to similar pressure as BW, I dunno. It sure seems like a strikingly similar architecture to me, though.</p><p></p><p></p><p>*Dresden Files may have a tweak that does this, but I haven't read or played it yet.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ratskinner, post: 6019200, member: 6688937"] Assuming this is accurate, and comparing it to my experiences FATE; The different bit would seem to be the requirement of failure in order to advance. There's no FATE requirement of failing a skill before advancing that skill. The rest is similar, but FATE doesn't usually ask the player to find ways to "push" to failure.* Wishing to exploit such an opportunity, a player need not make any rolls, the consequences of playing up to the aspect are simply narrated and FP collected. Early FATE made this a GM responsibility, but modern versions allow/encourage players to initiate such exchanges. FATE wouldn't explicitly require the other players to Vote and wouldn't give them the direct power to change your character, but in a group playing it closer to the Narrative end I would expect effectively similar discussions to take place. The pressure to play up to aspects is one of FATE's "dials" and is dependent, IME, on what is usually called the "refresh rate" for FATE Points. (Its actually the "Starting" pool of FP for new characters, but with the presumption that between adventures, it will reset to this level.) The FP economy is one of the most important aspects (no pun intended) in FATE, but its also one of the most flexible. Having FP around to spend during important or difficult scenes can really make a tremendous difference in your character's effectiveness. Using "Honourable", if you're drained of FP...well you can't, except to take an honourable dive and earn an FP for it. (You can spend FATE points suboptimally without using an aspect, but you can't use aspects without FATE points.) So, if the refresh rate is set low, you might start play with 5 (or even 3) FP (Theoretically 0 is possible, but I haven't seen it). You will feel a lot more pressure from the start to play up the "softer" or negative side of your aspects to earn more FP. Conversely, I've seen the refresh start as high as 15 in a convention game...giving almost no incentive to use the aspects early on to generate story. To be fair, that may have been intentional, since that scenario was a pretty straightforward "dungeon-crawl" (despite its modern day trappings). Variable in FATE implementations. Some use FP as "experience points" to purchase advancement in skills or additional stunts. That seems to be falling out of fashion, though. (I suspect in-part because long-running FATE campaigns are rarities.) Changing Aspects, though, is a common occurrence. Most FATE implementations recommend that after each scenario plays out, all players review their aspects and alter them accordingly (sometimes restricted to 1/scenario). Additionally, most recommend that if something "big" happens in play, that aspect(s) can be changed immediately. You can also gain a new aspect as part of consequences to losing a contest. In FATE your character can actually lose limbs, etc. Similarly, you could also get aspects like "Banished from Ardia" as the consequence of losing a social contest. Whether all that amounts to similar pressure as BW, I dunno. It sure seems like a strikingly similar architecture to me, though. *Dresden Files may have a tweak that does this, but I haven't read or played it yet. [/QUOTE]
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