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<blockquote data-quote="Allistar1801" data-source="post: 7640070" data-attributes="member: 6977279"><p>19th Century?! Wow, that changes quite a bit, but I still think most of that would be irrelevant with the advent of magic (really just a whole lot about arms and armor/how they were percieved). That is something I genuinely did not know. That changes the idea for a low magic campaign that I was going to run. Good find!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's certainly one way to go about it, but I think more so than anything else that the introduction and continued practice of resurrection would perpetuate the idea of this holy chosen class of people who are meant to rule. Sorta like how the Egyptians believed their pharaohs were eternal god kings, so too would I think these devout societies would think of the higher class of priests as arms to the divine being. They of course still die, but they truly live on until the very vessels they inhabit can no longer function. An idea I was playing with was the idea that a priest could be so devoted to their faith that they simply refuse to pass on, remaining in the mortal world as a saintly specter, or some kind of basilica guardian. As for how people would feel about it, pretty bad I'd imagine, that is unless their society had placed such an emphasis on the faith to the point of fanaticism. I guess that's the one thing I get out of god's being present in the D&D world. Praise is more validated, crusades more focused down on what is through their eyes unholy, and the tangible real world effects that this kind of magic would have such as saving lives or smiting the sinners would be one hell of a recruitment campaign. It would breed a theocracy in which the faith in this almighty being are pushed to their absolute limits. From the outside looking in this could seem like indoctrination, but in reality it's just the kind of unwavering faith that comes with the title as "god's chosen" </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean.... yes. Their magic bends the will of plants, animals, and the earth around them. They can call forth tsunamis, earthquakes, and storms the likes of tornadoes. They can raise mountains and bring down wrath the likes of disasters we can only imagine here on earth. </p><p></p><p>Perhaps I see it in a completely wrong way, but I see the process of becoming a druid as basically becoming one with nature. You have meditated in nature, learned the names of the constellations, you sit in the presence of animals and have observed their movements and behaviors. You know the meanings of their actions and what they say with the noises they make. You become a druid because you become an extension of nature itself, not the fey that live in it. There is no "balance" only the state of nature as it is and nothing more. I don't think the large enclaves of druids would have given in to the industrialization for a long while if not at all, the point here is that it really doesn't take that many druids to completely change the scope of a setting. Even if there were only lets say 6 druids that dissented and decided to set up shop in a few countryside towns ritual casting plant growth or changing the weather, or anything else. They would completely change the way that agriculture is performed in these areas because of all of the previously mentioned reasons</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Magic diseases would be another thing entirely just as curses are (also clerics, wizards, and a whole bunch of other classes get access to remove curse sooo....<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" />), but the point was about natural diseases. People eating more fully and healthier combined with the amount of cleansing magic that there is would probably make most diseases fall of the map. The only thing I can see changing that is if a disease had a higher infection rate than the cure rate. As for the "not everybody agrees that diseases should be cured thing", really? So not everyone believes cancer should be cured, or that any of these illnesses that kill multiple hundreds of thousands in total should be stopped? I'd get it if it were bacteria since some of those serve a purpose, but nearly every disease throughout human history has only served to thin the numbers. That's one of the points I made up top as well, since people would live longer and healthier the population would also increase, creating a different form of conflict. Overall I'm not really sure what you were going for here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's why I said they would probably make a state ruling on that. Perhaps only certain people get trained as war wizards, but the point is it would completely change the way warfare was performed. Magic as a weapon even in the hands of an apprentice can still sway everything in an instant (A 15 FT CONE OF FLAME IS FIRST LEVEL). I don't think there should really be any "special rules" in terms of evocation on the battlefield, that's it's entire purpose, instead there should be a change in tactics. If they know they're up against casters, they would spread out or use longbows, ranged cavalry or anything that allows them to take down the casters at a safe distance/maintain mobility. It's either that, or they would have their own casters try to counterspell, or cast some form of abjuration effect on the units. I could go on about this forever since HEMA and the like are my bread and butter, but yeah needless to say it would just be another facet to warfare that both sides would try to capitalize on. In terms of game balance it's hard to say, but history doesn't care about how balanced something is only who won.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't really think conjuration is that big of an offender of this. All it really does is temporarily summon creatures and objects, I mean that's crazy in it's own right but not the subject that is in question. No, I think that transmutation would be the largest offender of this and completely change the way that manufacturing was performed. Apart from literally being able to change matter from one form to another transmutation can just transform the raw resources into whatever is needed. Need a bridge, well cut me down those trees and I'll just shape it into whatever we want. Need a mine, I'll shape the stone around an area leaving a pillar in the middle to support the tunnels. Need a sword, I just need the steel and I can form it perfectly to your specifications. It would basically be like an industrial revolution 3.0, the likes of which would take us thousands of years in our own history</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sorry if I came of as a bit hostile in any of these, I genuinely think they're great questions and loved the deep dive into them. I personally want to hear more stuff like this because it really gets me thinking!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Allistar1801, post: 7640070, member: 6977279"] 19th Century?! Wow, that changes quite a bit, but I still think most of that would be irrelevant with the advent of magic (really just a whole lot about arms and armor/how they were percieved). That is something I genuinely did not know. That changes the idea for a low magic campaign that I was going to run. Good find! That's certainly one way to go about it, but I think more so than anything else that the introduction and continued practice of resurrection would perpetuate the idea of this holy chosen class of people who are meant to rule. Sorta like how the Egyptians believed their pharaohs were eternal god kings, so too would I think these devout societies would think of the higher class of priests as arms to the divine being. They of course still die, but they truly live on until the very vessels they inhabit can no longer function. An idea I was playing with was the idea that a priest could be so devoted to their faith that they simply refuse to pass on, remaining in the mortal world as a saintly specter, or some kind of basilica guardian. As for how people would feel about it, pretty bad I'd imagine, that is unless their society had placed such an emphasis on the faith to the point of fanaticism. I guess that's the one thing I get out of god's being present in the D&D world. Praise is more validated, crusades more focused down on what is through their eyes unholy, and the tangible real world effects that this kind of magic would have such as saving lives or smiting the sinners would be one hell of a recruitment campaign. It would breed a theocracy in which the faith in this almighty being are pushed to their absolute limits. From the outside looking in this could seem like indoctrination, but in reality it's just the kind of unwavering faith that comes with the title as "god's chosen" I mean.... yes. Their magic bends the will of plants, animals, and the earth around them. They can call forth tsunamis, earthquakes, and storms the likes of tornadoes. They can raise mountains and bring down wrath the likes of disasters we can only imagine here on earth. Perhaps I see it in a completely wrong way, but I see the process of becoming a druid as basically becoming one with nature. You have meditated in nature, learned the names of the constellations, you sit in the presence of animals and have observed their movements and behaviors. You know the meanings of their actions and what they say with the noises they make. You become a druid because you become an extension of nature itself, not the fey that live in it. There is no "balance" only the state of nature as it is and nothing more. I don't think the large enclaves of druids would have given in to the industrialization for a long while if not at all, the point here is that it really doesn't take that many druids to completely change the scope of a setting. Even if there were only lets say 6 druids that dissented and decided to set up shop in a few countryside towns ritual casting plant growth or changing the weather, or anything else. They would completely change the way that agriculture is performed in these areas because of all of the previously mentioned reasons Magic diseases would be another thing entirely just as curses are (also clerics, wizards, and a whole bunch of other classes get access to remove curse sooo....:confused:), but the point was about natural diseases. People eating more fully and healthier combined with the amount of cleansing magic that there is would probably make most diseases fall of the map. The only thing I can see changing that is if a disease had a higher infection rate than the cure rate. As for the "not everybody agrees that diseases should be cured thing", really? So not everyone believes cancer should be cured, or that any of these illnesses that kill multiple hundreds of thousands in total should be stopped? I'd get it if it were bacteria since some of those serve a purpose, but nearly every disease throughout human history has only served to thin the numbers. That's one of the points I made up top as well, since people would live longer and healthier the population would also increase, creating a different form of conflict. Overall I'm not really sure what you were going for here. That's why I said they would probably make a state ruling on that. Perhaps only certain people get trained as war wizards, but the point is it would completely change the way warfare was performed. Magic as a weapon even in the hands of an apprentice can still sway everything in an instant (A 15 FT CONE OF FLAME IS FIRST LEVEL). I don't think there should really be any "special rules" in terms of evocation on the battlefield, that's it's entire purpose, instead there should be a change in tactics. If they know they're up against casters, they would spread out or use longbows, ranged cavalry or anything that allows them to take down the casters at a safe distance/maintain mobility. It's either that, or they would have their own casters try to counterspell, or cast some form of abjuration effect on the units. I could go on about this forever since HEMA and the like are my bread and butter, but yeah needless to say it would just be another facet to warfare that both sides would try to capitalize on. In terms of game balance it's hard to say, but history doesn't care about how balanced something is only who won. I don't really think conjuration is that big of an offender of this. All it really does is temporarily summon creatures and objects, I mean that's crazy in it's own right but not the subject that is in question. No, I think that transmutation would be the largest offender of this and completely change the way that manufacturing was performed. Apart from literally being able to change matter from one form to another transmutation can just transform the raw resources into whatever is needed. Need a bridge, well cut me down those trees and I'll just shape it into whatever we want. Need a mine, I'll shape the stone around an area leaving a pillar in the middle to support the tunnels. Need a sword, I just need the steel and I can form it perfectly to your specifications. It would basically be like an industrial revolution 3.0, the likes of which would take us thousands of years in our own history Sorry if I came of as a bit hostile in any of these, I genuinely think they're great questions and loved the deep dive into them. I personally want to hear more stuff like this because it really gets me thinking! [/QUOTE]
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