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<blockquote data-quote="Allistar1801" data-source="post: 7640235" data-attributes="member: 6977279"><p>Not really my intention but you frame it in an interesting way that I hadn't considdered. It's not exactly immortality as we know it, but a full service until your natural end (like the pope). IIRC most resurrection spells don't work in regards to death by old age. Grated the lifespans of some of these races is a bit ridiculous, but the point is eventually old age would take them. I suppose the logical rebuttal to this is "you don't die of old age, you die of the diseases associated with it", but if it's a disease that is onset because your organs are literally decaying inside you, I don't think any kind of cure will fix that</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe this is an american thing, but we/I think rulers are meant to change as time progresses. A diversity of ideas (however it seems pretty rare nowadays) is a bit of a concept that is a bit baked into our history. Sometimes the ideas were shifted in the favor of the people, most of the time it wasn't and people felt the government was cheating them. I think it also becomes really important to get the casting right the first time in the case of a ruler that will only leave if they die. It's either that or you quite literally ask your god "should this apostle lead the faith" or some such questioning prayer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The operating idea here is that clerics and paladins have to pray to their gods and follow their faith thus breeding a theocracy/very devout populace that's willing to devote their life to the service of their god. Also, while I agree most of the daily affairs would be more religious than the ones that are usually portrayed I don't think would be the level that we would be talking about here. Their god is confirmed REAL, your prayers are actually doing something in the grand scheme of things. If that dosen't motivate your society to put the praising into high gear I don't know what will. Like I said it would kind of depend on the pantheon and what actual god they praise, but anything written in their hymns might as well be law, or dictate that you are expected to follow to the dot. I almost imagine it as if the Spanish Inquisition never stopped.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean yeah the number of 5th level casters wouldnt be high, but at least in relative terms stuff like a 2nd or 3rd level paladin wouldn't be the most uncommon thing in the world. Of course their disease stopping potential is quite literally 2/3 people per day, but it's something. I also agree that reinfection would be a bit of an issue, however I think a certian level of resistance would be built up since your body had experienced the infection form before. A bit like how certian vacines infect you with the virus so that your immune system flags the infection form for destruction. I don't think the clensing would really ever go so far as to eleminate the common cold or completely stop the idea of infection (people need some kind of immune system to be built up), but in the case of seriously bad things I fell like they would step in. Also it kind of goes without saying, but if the disease is being caused by something that isn't bacteria or viruses and the like it wouldn't be eliminated by the cure disease thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The intent wasn't for wizards to replace the common foot soldier, but to act as a kind of lord from warhammer. One unit with crazy abilities that are capable of sculpting the battle in their favor and wiping out entire regiments with well placed spells. While I don't think low level wizards would be very prevalent, their use can be quite a bit more than what you think. Fog and other such low level area denying spells are quite simple spells, but most unbreakable. I get what you're going for when you say a shield wall that can weather fireballs, but I definitely feel like that would be the kind of thing a regiment of renown would be known for, not a normal grouping of foot soldiers. It's probably as easy as giving them the shield master feat as an effect. As for the "mages keeping their heads down" thing, I agree that they probably wouldn't engage in warfare very often, but from my perspective the most powerful of wizards would not only be the figures with the most arcane power, but also social and military power. Again, the utilitarian/destructive nature of their magic puts them in a pretty good spot on the totem pole (at least from a historical perspective that doesn't think magic is evil)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe it's just my affinity towards the idea of magitech, but I think that they would kind of be developed in tandem. A bit like how the cycle of research is outlined, magic would start the process by giving measurements. Those measurements give us the information we need to make tools, and those tools give us better/more accurate measurements, and so on for eternity. Repeat until omnipotence/the goal is reached.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Allistar1801, post: 7640235, member: 6977279"] Not really my intention but you frame it in an interesting way that I hadn't considdered. It's not exactly immortality as we know it, but a full service until your natural end (like the pope). IIRC most resurrection spells don't work in regards to death by old age. Grated the lifespans of some of these races is a bit ridiculous, but the point is eventually old age would take them. I suppose the logical rebuttal to this is "you don't die of old age, you die of the diseases associated with it", but if it's a disease that is onset because your organs are literally decaying inside you, I don't think any kind of cure will fix that Maybe this is an american thing, but we/I think rulers are meant to change as time progresses. A diversity of ideas (however it seems pretty rare nowadays) is a bit of a concept that is a bit baked into our history. Sometimes the ideas were shifted in the favor of the people, most of the time it wasn't and people felt the government was cheating them. I think it also becomes really important to get the casting right the first time in the case of a ruler that will only leave if they die. It's either that or you quite literally ask your god "should this apostle lead the faith" or some such questioning prayer. The operating idea here is that clerics and paladins have to pray to their gods and follow their faith thus breeding a theocracy/very devout populace that's willing to devote their life to the service of their god. Also, while I agree most of the daily affairs would be more religious than the ones that are usually portrayed I don't think would be the level that we would be talking about here. Their god is confirmed REAL, your prayers are actually doing something in the grand scheme of things. If that dosen't motivate your society to put the praising into high gear I don't know what will. Like I said it would kind of depend on the pantheon and what actual god they praise, but anything written in their hymns might as well be law, or dictate that you are expected to follow to the dot. I almost imagine it as if the Spanish Inquisition never stopped. I mean yeah the number of 5th level casters wouldnt be high, but at least in relative terms stuff like a 2nd or 3rd level paladin wouldn't be the most uncommon thing in the world. Of course their disease stopping potential is quite literally 2/3 people per day, but it's something. I also agree that reinfection would be a bit of an issue, however I think a certian level of resistance would be built up since your body had experienced the infection form before. A bit like how certian vacines infect you with the virus so that your immune system flags the infection form for destruction. I don't think the clensing would really ever go so far as to eleminate the common cold or completely stop the idea of infection (people need some kind of immune system to be built up), but in the case of seriously bad things I fell like they would step in. Also it kind of goes without saying, but if the disease is being caused by something that isn't bacteria or viruses and the like it wouldn't be eliminated by the cure disease thing. The intent wasn't for wizards to replace the common foot soldier, but to act as a kind of lord from warhammer. One unit with crazy abilities that are capable of sculpting the battle in their favor and wiping out entire regiments with well placed spells. While I don't think low level wizards would be very prevalent, their use can be quite a bit more than what you think. Fog and other such low level area denying spells are quite simple spells, but most unbreakable. I get what you're going for when you say a shield wall that can weather fireballs, but I definitely feel like that would be the kind of thing a regiment of renown would be known for, not a normal grouping of foot soldiers. It's probably as easy as giving them the shield master feat as an effect. As for the "mages keeping their heads down" thing, I agree that they probably wouldn't engage in warfare very often, but from my perspective the most powerful of wizards would not only be the figures with the most arcane power, but also social and military power. Again, the utilitarian/destructive nature of their magic puts them in a pretty good spot on the totem pole (at least from a historical perspective that doesn't think magic is evil) Maybe it's just my affinity towards the idea of magitech, but I think that they would kind of be developed in tandem. A bit like how the cycle of research is outlined, magic would start the process by giving measurements. Those measurements give us the information we need to make tools, and those tools give us better/more accurate measurements, and so on for eternity. Repeat until omnipotence/the goal is reached. [/QUOTE]
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