Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Worlds of Design: Heroes … Made or Born?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="lewpuls" data-source="post: 8589392" data-attributes="member: 30518"><p>Where do heroes come? Some are destined from birth to be heroes, while others rise to the occasion. Your RPG system of choice likely determines which you get to play.</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]154609[/ATTACH]</p> <p style="text-align: center"><a href="https://pixabay.com/photos/boy-batman-superhero-photomontage-4397427/" target="_blank">Picture courtesy of Pixabay.</a></p><p></p><p>Fantasy stories range from nearly-idealistic high fantasy to gritty realism (such as Glenn Cook’s early <strong>Black Company</strong> stories). The level of grit can determine a hero’s arc. High fantasy tends to feature royalty born into their destiny, while grittier fantasy entails characters achieving their greatness through a lot of hard work. Not surprisingly, the tabletop role-playing game’s rules tend to bias characters toward one of these extremes.</p><h2>Heroes are Born, Not Made</h2><p>I recently re-watched the first <strong>Wonder Woman</strong> movie. Despite some historical inaccuracies regarding WW I, I thought it was otherwise a fine movie. Wonder Woman has been around for some time, and has parallels in an earlier fictional character, Dejah Thoris (DJ) from the <strong>John Carter</strong> movie (not from the books).</p><p></p><p>DJ from the book is very beautiful and proud, with a long history, and for the time of writing (1912) she is quite independent and not just a princess/damsel in distress. But from our contemporary point of view a century later she <strong>is</strong> just a damsel in distress. In the later <strong><em>John Carter</em></strong> movie, she’s portrayed as a trained fighter who quite willingly and efficiently kills her enemies, and one of the great scientists on her entire planet. She isn’t expected to be a hero, but is expected to do whatever is needed for her country, including “lay[ing] down my life.” Like Wonder Woman (Diana Prince), Dejah Thoris is impossible—no human, male or female, could possibly have all of her desirable attributes. (And when you think of it, DJ is a Martian and Diana Prince is a goddess, so neither of them are human.)</p><p></p><p>Both of these characters have known from birth what they needed to do, and in Wonder Woman’s case she has been trained, and in effect trained herself from birth, to think of herself as a hero in the sense of someone who helps other people and does what needs to be done. Some comic book superheroes (Superman?, Black Panther) resemble WW and DJ in their original dedication to be heroes. </p><p></p><p>In tabletop games, these sorts of characters tend to be found in point-buy and more story-oriented systems. Not surprisingly, you can find these sorts of systems in superhero games.</p><h2>Heroes are Made, Not Born</h2><p>This is in contrast to heroes such as Frodo and Samwise in the <strong><em>Lord of the Rings.</em></strong> The book is actually Sam’s story, and though the movie became Aragorn’s story, the heroism of the hobbits shines through: that sometimes something “heroic” needs to be done, and otherwise-ordinary people do it, as often occurs in wartime. Aragorn in the book is similar to Wonder Woman insofar as he knows what needs to be done and is prepared to do it, though he’s not sure he will succeed. Well, Diana, young and naive, was sure she would succeed. Aragorn in the movies was far more uncertain, a more modern hero.</p><p></p><p>Sam was a hero because he had to be, not because he wanted to be. In contrast, some people are naturally “goddam heroes” (or want to be). But most of them just get killed. "A foolhardy act is a brave act which fails."</p><p></p><p>What we read in an adventure novel is almost always someone <strong>getting really lucky</strong>. Yes, people in the real world do get lucky (<a href="https://www.history.co.uk/shows/x-company/articles/the-man-awarded-two-victoria-crosses" target="_blank">such as the soldier who received TWO Victoria Crosses in WW II and lived into his 80s</a>). But most would-be heroes in a novel-like situation in the real world “get put in the dead book.”</p><h2>The Heroes of Your Game</h2><p>As GMs of RPGs, are we trying to replicate the extremely lucky hero, or someone born (and equipped by heredity) to be a hero, or someone answering an unexpected need for heroism, or something else? Any game system can accommodate the full spectrum of hero journeys, but some are biased towards one or the other.</p><p></p><p>Leveling systems where death is a constant possibility and characters are more likely to die at lower levels favors characters in the Tolkien mold: they may have some built-in advantages over other generic folk, but they are by no means guaranteed to succeed. <strong><em>Dungeons & Dragons</em></strong> is the original system for this, but there have been many others since. In these sorts of systems, unlucky die rolls can end a character’s career.</p><p></p><p>Games in which heroes are achieving their destiny tend to be more story-oriented and less level-based. It’s more important the heroes fulfill their potential than earn their way to it, and thus there’s less worrying about survival and more about broader concerns (saving the world, being true to themselves, etc.).</p><p></p><p>In the end, much of this comes down to luck: where RPGs most clearly deviate from the real, just as novels do, is in the exceptional good fortune and success enjoyed by the characters. That, or you have a stream of dead player characters. But do the dice determine that luck or are the heroes “born lucky”?</p><p></p><p><strong>Your turn: Do you have a particular kind of hero that you want your characters to emulate?</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="lewpuls, post: 8589392, member: 30518"] Where do heroes come? Some are destined from birth to be heroes, while others rise to the occasion. Your RPG system of choice likely determines which you get to play. [CENTER][ATTACH type="full" alt="boy-4397427_960_720.jpg"]154609[/ATTACH] [URL='https://pixabay.com/photos/boy-batman-superhero-photomontage-4397427/']Picture courtesy of Pixabay.[/URL][/CENTER] Fantasy stories range from nearly-idealistic high fantasy to gritty realism (such as Glenn Cook’s early [B]Black Company[/B] stories). The level of grit can determine a hero’s arc. High fantasy tends to feature royalty born into their destiny, while grittier fantasy entails characters achieving their greatness through a lot of hard work. Not surprisingly, the tabletop role-playing game’s rules tend to bias characters toward one of these extremes. [HEADING=1]Heroes are Born, Not Made[/HEADING] I recently re-watched the first [B]Wonder Woman[/B] movie. Despite some historical inaccuracies regarding WW I, I thought it was otherwise a fine movie. Wonder Woman has been around for some time, and has parallels in an earlier fictional character, Dejah Thoris (DJ) from the [B]John Carter[/B] movie (not from the books). DJ from the book is very beautiful and proud, with a long history, and for the time of writing (1912) she is quite independent and not just a princess/damsel in distress. But from our contemporary point of view a century later she [B]is[/B] just a damsel in distress. In the later [B][I]John Carter[/I][/B] movie, she’s portrayed as a trained fighter who quite willingly and efficiently kills her enemies, and one of the great scientists on her entire planet. She isn’t expected to be a hero, but is expected to do whatever is needed for her country, including “lay[ing] down my life.” Like Wonder Woman (Diana Prince), Dejah Thoris is impossible—no human, male or female, could possibly have all of her desirable attributes. (And when you think of it, DJ is a Martian and Diana Prince is a goddess, so neither of them are human.) Both of these characters have known from birth what they needed to do, and in Wonder Woman’s case she has been trained, and in effect trained herself from birth, to think of herself as a hero in the sense of someone who helps other people and does what needs to be done. Some comic book superheroes (Superman?, Black Panther) resemble WW and DJ in their original dedication to be heroes. In tabletop games, these sorts of characters tend to be found in point-buy and more story-oriented systems. Not surprisingly, you can find these sorts of systems in superhero games. [HEADING=1]Heroes are Made, Not Born[/HEADING] This is in contrast to heroes such as Frodo and Samwise in the [B][I]Lord of the Rings.[/I][/B] The book is actually Sam’s story, and though the movie became Aragorn’s story, the heroism of the hobbits shines through: that sometimes something “heroic” needs to be done, and otherwise-ordinary people do it, as often occurs in wartime. Aragorn in the book is similar to Wonder Woman insofar as he knows what needs to be done and is prepared to do it, though he’s not sure he will succeed. Well, Diana, young and naive, was sure she would succeed. Aragorn in the movies was far more uncertain, a more modern hero. Sam was a hero because he had to be, not because he wanted to be. In contrast, some people are naturally “goddam heroes” (or want to be). But most of them just get killed. "A foolhardy act is a brave act which fails." What we read in an adventure novel is almost always someone [B]getting really lucky[/B]. Yes, people in the real world do get lucky ([URL='https://www.history.co.uk/shows/x-company/articles/the-man-awarded-two-victoria-crosses']such as the soldier who received TWO Victoria Crosses in WW II and lived into his 80s[/URL]). But most would-be heroes in a novel-like situation in the real world “get put in the dead book.” [HEADING=1]The Heroes of Your Game[/HEADING] As GMs of RPGs, are we trying to replicate the extremely lucky hero, or someone born (and equipped by heredity) to be a hero, or someone answering an unexpected need for heroism, or something else? Any game system can accommodate the full spectrum of hero journeys, but some are biased towards one or the other. Leveling systems where death is a constant possibility and characters are more likely to die at lower levels favors characters in the Tolkien mold: they may have some built-in advantages over other generic folk, but they are by no means guaranteed to succeed. [B][I]Dungeons & Dragons[/I][/B] is the original system for this, but there have been many others since. In these sorts of systems, unlucky die rolls can end a character’s career. Games in which heroes are achieving their destiny tend to be more story-oriented and less level-based. It’s more important the heroes fulfill their potential than earn their way to it, and thus there’s less worrying about survival and more about broader concerns (saving the world, being true to themselves, etc.). In the end, much of this comes down to luck: where RPGs most clearly deviate from the real, just as novels do, is in the exceptional good fortune and success enjoyed by the characters. That, or you have a stream of dead player characters. But do the dice determine that luck or are the heroes “born lucky”? [B]Your turn: Do you have a particular kind of hero that you want your characters to emulate?[/B] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Worlds of Design: Heroes … Made or Born?
Top