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Worlds of Design: There is No Spoon
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<blockquote data-quote="Emberashh" data-source="post: 9197101" data-attributes="member: 7040941"><p>There can be, but there shouldn't be and I personally see it as bad design if it can happen. </p><p></p><p>In game design theres a recognized phenomenon that basically states that no game survives intact once players come into contact with it. Doesn't matter what kind of game it is. </p><p></p><p>And in general, this isn't a bad thing and is in fact something to be designed towards as a benefit (emergence). A lot of why Chess is such a classic game comes from emergence, for example. </p><p></p><p>But where it goes wrong is when players buy into the game's rules, but then run into problems despite not really violating the rules. </p><p></p><p>I know I'm inviting arguments by pointing a finger, but this is more or less the principle flaw of PBTA and DND 5e. Both of these have an intended way to play but fail to put any actionable constraints on how players play to ensure that the intended way works across the board. Many can slip into those constraints on their own, but many don't and many just won't. </p><p></p><p>So while one can play these games and go beyond what they mechanically support, one can also play these games and unintentionally <em>screw up</em> what they do mechanically support. Why that is can be for a lot of reasons. In PBTA, rolling too much tends to be what kicks the flaw into gear, and just asserting that people need to learn to not do that isn't a viable constraint. A possible solution there is a round/turn structure and an "roll" economy. After all, that is how they constrain GMs in those games, so it just needs to be applied going the other way. </p><p></p><p>In 5e, there's more than a few of these, but easily the biggest one is the Adventuring Day debacle, which is rooted in how the game constructed its resource generation (rest mechanics). Theres a few solutions; Im partial to just using something else entirely as rest mechanics have aesthetic issues in addition to being a poor mechanic that then informs a bad procedure that, even if followed (and most don't on initial contact with the rules), doesn't produce the most fun gameplay possible. </p><p></p><p>In both cases, the wrong way to play directly eats into the possible fun by disrupting a core part of the game, and that needs to be resolved in the design so it can be avoided.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Emberashh, post: 9197101, member: 7040941"] There can be, but there shouldn't be and I personally see it as bad design if it can happen. In game design theres a recognized phenomenon that basically states that no game survives intact once players come into contact with it. Doesn't matter what kind of game it is. And in general, this isn't a bad thing and is in fact something to be designed towards as a benefit (emergence). A lot of why Chess is such a classic game comes from emergence, for example. But where it goes wrong is when players buy into the game's rules, but then run into problems despite not really violating the rules. I know I'm inviting arguments by pointing a finger, but this is more or less the principle flaw of PBTA and DND 5e. Both of these have an intended way to play but fail to put any actionable constraints on how players play to ensure that the intended way works across the board. Many can slip into those constraints on their own, but many don't and many just won't. So while one can play these games and go beyond what they mechanically support, one can also play these games and unintentionally [I]screw up[/I] what they do mechanically support. Why that is can be for a lot of reasons. In PBTA, rolling too much tends to be what kicks the flaw into gear, and just asserting that people need to learn to not do that isn't a viable constraint. A possible solution there is a round/turn structure and an "roll" economy. After all, that is how they constrain GMs in those games, so it just needs to be applied going the other way. In 5e, there's more than a few of these, but easily the biggest one is the Adventuring Day debacle, which is rooted in how the game constructed its resource generation (rest mechanics). Theres a few solutions; Im partial to just using something else entirely as rest mechanics have aesthetic issues in addition to being a poor mechanic that then informs a bad procedure that, even if followed (and most don't on initial contact with the rules), doesn't produce the most fun gameplay possible. In both cases, the wrong way to play directly eats into the possible fun by disrupting a core part of the game, and that needs to be resolved in the design so it can be avoided. [/QUOTE]
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